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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Random Thoughts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Originally posted by Doc Holiday Doc Holiday wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

It's an illusion to believe that anyone will truly let their kids decide on their own. Whether you are a believer, a non-believer or simply unsure, people share their mindset with their kids whether they want to or not. Even when you think that you're not forcing anything onto your kids, you pass on to them a certain view of the world, consciously or unconsciously. Your child will either accept your view point, rebel against it or be conflicted. The freedom lies in their reaction to it.  


Never said that I wouldn't be a significant influence (it kind of comes with the territory), but there is a world of difference between influencing and forcing. On this topic, there really isn't much to rebel against per se. If my hypothetical kids want to become Christian Fundamentalists, then that's their choice.
If your kid were to decide to espouse the tenants of a monotheist religion, there is automatically a rejection of your world view, hence a rebellion. Breaking away from the world view you were taught always involves some level of struggle. Sometimes it's more internal than external and sometimes it's both. But it's there.


What if the taught worldview is broad? For example, parents presented to a kid that some people believe in this, some people believe in that, I believe in this, your uncle believes in that, you are free to believe what you want.

A worldview doesn't have to be so narrow.

We might be simply disagreeing on word usage, but I don't think "some level of struggle" is at all a negation of freedom, which is what you first objected to, if I understand correctly. Do I order the steak or the lobster. Yeah there's some level of struggle, but I'm still free to make the choice.
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JoliePoufiasse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

Originally posted by Doc Holiday Doc Holiday wrote:

No music?!? And I thought that Catholic Mass was rough...


If you grew up in a Black Church all others seem completely bland.
LOL, Catholic mass has music. It's just that it's very repetitive and kind of bland, for the most part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc Holiday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by noneyons noneyons wrote:

doc, have you considered rationalizing your existential angst with quantum physics? 

The angst isn't really a problem nowadays. From what I know of quantum physics, it conflicts with with Existentialism quite a bit. Of course, my knowledge on this subject is rudimentary and rusty, so I would be pleased if you could put me on to something new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:47pm
Okay Jolie but she didn't ask if they were emotionally and mentally free to choose or whether they are the type of people who make decisions based solely on what is important to them and them only and who cares what my relatives think.  They are free from the tyranny of me saying do it this way because I said so and/or I'll "disown" you.  I don't own my children, they are human beings no different from me.  My greatest hope is for them to be happy, however they choose to be happy.  I decided a long time ago to give them room and watch them maneuver.   I'm living my life and I will not try to live theirs for them.  They make choices I don't agree with everyday and I say you are grown, do you. 

The emotional connection of family, history, tradition etc is a part of life.   I can't change that but I want them to be free.  If they can't be because they have human parents oh well.   I didn't set up this crazy systemLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc Holiday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:


LOL, I guess that is the point I was trying to make.

It's something that I admittedly struggle with on a purely intellectual level. Based on current Neuroscience, we are quite literally our biology and environment. Despite what we may believe, we couldn't be anything other than what we are.


Edited by Doc Holiday - Oct 11 2013 at 10:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by Random Thoughts Random Thoughts wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Originally posted by Doc Holiday Doc Holiday wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

It's an illusion to believe that anyone will truly let their kids decide on their own. Whether you are a believer, a non-believer or simply unsure, people share their mindset with their kids whether they want to or not. Even when you think that you're not forcing anything onto your kids, you pass on to them a certain view of the world, consciously or unconsciously. Your child will either accept your view point, rebel against it or be conflicted. The freedom lies in their reaction to it.  


Never said that I wouldn't be a significant influence (it kind of comes with the territory), but there is a world of difference between influencing and forcing. On this topic, there really isn't much to rebel against per se. If my hypothetical kids want to become Christian Fundamentalists, then that's their choice.
If your kid were to decide to espouse the tenants of a monotheist religion, there is automatically a rejection of your world view, hence a rebellion. Breaking away from the world view you were taught always involves some level of struggle. Sometimes it's more internal than external and sometimes it's both. But it's there.


What if the taught worldview is broad? For example, parents presented to a kid that some people believe in this, some people believe in that, I believe in this, your uncle believes in that, you are free to believe what you want.

A worldview doesn't have to be so narrow.

We might be simply disagreeing on word usage, but I don't think "some level of struggle" is at all a negation of freedom, which is what you first objected to, if I understand correctly. Do I order the steak or the lobster. Yeah there's some level of struggle, but I'm still free to make the choice.
That is a lovely utopia, but utopia nonetheless. You come to believe what you believe in BECAUSE of what has been surrounding you and what has been lacking in what has been surrounding you. Therefore you are not a 100% free. I consider myself to have a fairly broad world view as well. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of what I've come to believe now is partly a REACTION to what I've been exposed to. And I simply do not believe that you would not be upset on some level if, holding the beliefs that you hold, your kid decided to join a fundamentalist Christian cult tomorrow. You may learn to accept it, but that is an entirely different thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:50pm
RT that is the conversation I have with my son when he comes home from SCHOOL talking about God.  Different things that different people believe.  They don't have to be thought of as right or wrong its just what that person believes.  Grandma tells him x but maybe I believe y, guess what he says he believes?  Z!  And we rock with that sh*t!Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Doc Holiday Doc Holiday wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:


LOL, I guess that is the point I was trying to make.

It's something to that I admittedly struggle with on a purely intellectual level. Based on current Neuroscience, we are quite literally our biology and environment. Despite what we may believe, we couldn't be anything other than what we are.
Biology and environment are pre-determined factors, though. So You're kind of making my point...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote noneyons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:52pm
i'll post a video because quantum physics is almost as complex as religion and aint nobody got time for thatLOL

i can even see how religion and quantum physics overlap even. but that's a whole 'nother converstion for a whole 'nother day though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2013 at 10:52pm
Jolie your point been made and proved.  You're just talking about oranges when india asked about apples.   I love your crazy brain thoughHeart
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