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Wash and gos "dont work" on Nappy hair

 
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pinkecube View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 11:13pm
femmemuscleisback
 SmileBig smile
im so glad you had a revelation from this post and found interest in these videos, and am glad you took the time to post the summary you did. goodluck on your cg journey


Edited by pinkecube - Feb 24 2014 at 11:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 25 2014 at 10:13am
I thought i'd add another quick tip from my own personal experience. Baking soda treatments-- specifically danabnatural's suggestion of mixing conditioner and baking soda, do help open the cuticle. But, depending on the level of ph your hair needs, you may find your hair gets frizzy after doing so. This is the same with acv rinses. If you feel your hair is particularily dry after doing either one of those rinses, that is simply a sign the ph of your hair is unbalanced.

simply rebalance the hair ph by doing a treatment of the opposite ph.

So if your hair is frizzy after a baking soda rinse, do and acv rinse to balance out the hair, and vice versa. I did this and the frizz I was experiencing not only disappeared, I had root to tip definition on the coursest of my hair, even though I only had conditioner and olive oil in it, which was rinsed out for the most part when I poured the acv and water mixture into my hair.

Just something to keep in mind, although I gave good resources, don't forget you need to experiment with your hair and figure these things out by experience. Use these videos as a guideline of what you should experiment with, but also observe how your hair reacts to it

Edited by pinkecube - Feb 25 2014 at 10:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote LadyAradia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 28 2014 at 11:56am
This might help too. This is The Tightly Curly Method by Teri LaFlesh. With this method you can use conditioning, and smoothing silicone emollient conditioners and get the same effect.

I think a conditioner or Eco Styler gel with OILs added and with vegetable glycerine added will produce the best results. I think that castor oil with olive oil is a good oil mix. Add Vegetable glycerine to that and some eco styler gel for a winning formula to do the Culy Like Me Tightly Curly Method. And best of all, if you like smoothing silicone conditioners like Silicone Mix and Kanechom or other Dominican conditioners, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP with this natural method. You do not have to take them out with sulfate shampoos either on Afro hair. You can KEEP your silicone fillers to fill weak spots on the strands and KEEP THEM THERE doing their job!  They help with length retention in the same way that protein and lawson dye from Henna also help to keep the strands on your head by protective coating so you can grow long hair! So just feel free to co wash and dont try to remove the protective silicone coatings from the strands. They are meant to STAY THERE as protective fillers to smooth damaged raised cuticles which are weak spots where your hair would BREAK without them.
Again this is the method of author Teri LaFlesh who wrote Curly Like Me



Tightly Curly Method  on 4C hair with Eco Styler
 gel. 

Again, would be better with castor oil and olive oil along with vegetable glycerine  along with Eco Styler gel.  Another option for those with different tastes and a different point of view.

To maintain with the Tightly Curly Method, you oil and braid your hair at night and cover with a satin bonnet. So you have the elongating effect of braid outs as well. You can even maintain this look with oil, flat twists at night and a satin scarf
MOST importantly, I DO think the Curly Girl method by Ms Massey WAS invented with WHITE WOMEN in mind. The application to Black hair was an after thought add on ticket item. In contrast, Terri LaFlesh is a biracial Black woman who discovered this method out of the challenges of learning to deal with her own hair. So it was written first and foremost for US. Furthermore, Teri LaFlesh's method has allowed her hair to grow down BELOW HER BUTT...even with soothing, smoothing silicone emollient conditioners. With shrinkage it is still below waist length. So this method promotes LONG HAIR GROWTH for African Americans. Some methods and products are inherently better for White hair. Others methods and products are inherently better for Afro or Biracial hair.
Happy Hair Growing.




Edited by LadyAradia - Feb 28 2014 at 6:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote liesnalibis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 6:29am
^^^I have that book. It's a great book. I highly recommend it over the Curly Girl book.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 10:52am
Ladyaradia, thank you for taking the time to post this information, but

the youtubers danabnaturals and akedafitgirl have both read the tightly curly book. they have also read the science of black hair, hair care rehab and the curly girl method, and incorperate certain aspects into their regimines. the basis of cg method has worked for them the most. i wouldnt cut myself off to only the tightly curly method, just because the cg method is thought to be only for white women. both methods recommend products that some naturals cant handle. i know my hair hates glycerin, heavy butters silicones, and protiens like hydrolyzed wheat protein. diva curl products may also not be thick enough or moisturizing enough for certain ppl's hair. i already addressed this. it isnt about the products, its the basis of the cg method, which is to introduce moisture into you hair FREQUENTLY. this is why i constantly said make this method work for your hair. when i say work for your hair, i mean discover the products your hair likes. no where did i say, go out and buy diva curl products. in fact none of the youtubers i showed use divacurl products. they just follow the guidelines of the cg method, and it has helped them.

 i honestly disagree with the tightly curly method, simply because she recommends the use of products that have worked for her hair. they do not work on everyones hair, and you have to find out what products your hair likes. everyones hair likes water. but you cant say everyones hair likes glycerin, heavy oils, silicones, etc. if you find those products help you achieve more hydration, thats fine. at that point you would probably need drying sulfates to wash your hair, because sulfates are the only thing that can remove silicones. for some, that will strip the moisture in their hair more than it will help them retain and build up maximum hydration. if you avoid silicones and sulfates, you can use less drying products to cleanse your hair, like bentonite clay rinses, and acv rinses.

danabnaturals for example has low porosity hair. dont be fooled by the video with her having maximumly hydrated hair, if you watch her other videos, you can see the actual progression of her hair. she considered her hair to be 4c and it wasnt until she looked at the drying factors of all her products; protein, silicones, denatured alchols, sulfates, etc. that she started having that more moisturized look. the same wth aketafitgirl. the only thing that she was able to take from the tightly curly method, was to be heavy handed with her conditioner. The science of black hair in combination with the curly girl method seems like a better choice. another good book is haircare rehab by audrey davis, aketafitgirl has gotten her cleansing method from this book.


the way i see it:

1. You use the science of black hair to help figure out how your hair works, your porosity, density, the way the hair cuticle behaves, and what products it likes, etc.

2. Then apply the cg method which is just FREQUENT wash and gos (frequent I mean, every 1-3 days.)which reintroduces moisture(water and conditioner) into the hair shaft, gentle cleansing methods that don't strip the hair, sealing in the moisture with gel, and avoiding products that take away from your hair's moisture retention, or ability to receive moisture.

3. Tightly curly method for using thicker amounts of conditioner.

4. LOC/LCO/LCOC method if you find hair needs oil as an extra step before the gel.

5. And haircare rehab for good methods of more frequent cleansing (bentonite clay rinses, acv rinses, bakingsoda rinses)and frequent deep conditioning/steaming/Green house effect.

6. This applied altogether consistently in your regimine= maximum hydration


As for stretching, you can band your hair overnight in the way you want your hair to fall. I personally do two French rolls on either side of the top half of fresh wash and go into a half ponytail, and b4 bed take it out, it will be stretched but sticking up a bit. Then i tie a scarf so my hair can fall flatter, the next morning I fluff it out to unsmush it from my head (the curls are not flattened out or frizzed at all which is something I always used to suffer from with retwisting and rebraiding my hair)and I get the shape I want.


i recommend highly these youtubers (danabnatural, and aketafitgirl) specifically because they have tweaked the cg method to work for them, with these steps. they didnt force on their hair what it didnt like, they just used the basic cleanse hair frequently, and reintruduce moisture, (water and conditioner) then seal. you can seal with loc method, and apply gel over it, or just use gel. whatever you feel helps your hair retain moisture longer through out the day is the right method for you.

another tip I'd like to add is thorough application of product. This greatly effects how your hair turns out. Depending on the tightness of your curls, or thickness of your hair, parting smaller sections when applying every product is beneficial. You should know when your hair is properly and evenly coated on the hair from root to tip, by the amount of slip you feel as you are smoothing the section, this applies to both conditioner and gel.


Edited by pinkecube - Mar 01 2014 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote exceedinggrace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:08pm
I've been following this topic and reading into it for a few days, (and going to the youtubers you suggested) and put it to the test myself this morning. Well actualy overnight and this morning.

What I did was before going to bed, I did the acv rinse. I left it on for maybe 50 minutes and rinsed it out. Then I put conditioner on my hair thoroughly in sections put a shower cap over my head and deep conditioned overnight.

In the morning, I detangled and washed out the conditioner. I didn't have bentonite clay or terresentials, so i just used some organic clay that i had used as a face mask before. I did the mixture with honey, olive oil, and warm water. then i let it sit for 15 minutes and washed it out.

after that I put my leave in conditioner. (I use trader joes tea tree tingle as both my leave in and cowash) I raked a lot conditioner, first sectioning small layers of hair, moving from my nape upward.

Then i did the same with gel. (I used kccc) I applied the gel like akedafitgirl said, until I got slip. When I finshed, I shook my hair.

Now, Let me say first of all, these are the best results i've ever gotten in my wash and goes. I have never done an acv rinse or bentonite clay before, I would always just cowash and always have frizzed out wash and gos. I also have done the cherry lola treatment before which definetly helped my hair significantly, but this is like a whole new deal. I never thought i could have this kind of definition. i'm gonna try out your recipe to see if it works for me as well. Thank you so much for posting this, omg finally something that works for my hair! I'm gonna keep doing this, and may try alternating between acv rinses and baking soda rinses.


ClapClapClap


Edited by exceedinggrace - Mar 01 2014 at 8:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LadyAradia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:30pm
I also read the Curly Girl book today as well as The Tight Curly book. They are both good and both offer excellent tips and suggestions. In the end one should try both and see what works best for the individual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote exceedinggrace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

This might help too. This is The Tightly Curly Method by Teri LaFlesh. With this method you can use conditioning, and smoothing silicone emollient conditioners and get the same effect.

I think a conditioner or Eco Styler gel with OILs added and with vegetable glycerine added will produce the best results. I think that castor oil with olive oil is a good oil mix. Add Vegetable glycerine to that and some eco styler gel for a winning formula to do the Culy Like Me Tightly Curly Method. And best of all, if you like smoothing silicone conditioners like Silicone Mix and Kanechom or other Dominican conditioners, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP with this natural method. You do not have to take them out with sulfate shampoos either on Afro hair. You can KEEP your silicone fillers to fill weak spots on the strands and KEEP THEM THERE doing their job!  They help with length retention in the same way that protein and lawson dye from Henna also help to keep the strands on your head by protective coating so you can grow long hair! So just feel free to co wash and dont try to remove the protective silicone coatings from the strands. They are meant to STAY THERE as protective fillers to smooth damaged raised cuticles which are weak spots where your hair would BREAK without them.
Again this is the method of author Teri LaFlesh who wrote Curly Like Me


I looked into some of the videos, and the one showing 4c is of hair that is transitioning, that defined look is clearly not from hydrated curls. Her latest videos, her hair looks nothing like that now, cause she cut the ends off. Also, aucurlsnaturalle has like 3 type hair. All the videos shown from pink had girls with much tighter textures.

 I have not tried the tightly curly method, but I know I am not putting glycerin, silicones, or ecostyler in my kinky coily 4b hair. Ecostyler makes my hair feel like cornflakes, no matter how much oil i put under it. I may put a tiny amount of castor oil under my kccc though. One of the youtubers pink linked on the post actually does the Loc method before applying gel.


Edited by exceedinggrace - Mar 01 2014 at 8:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LadyAradia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 11:16pm
@ Grace. I agree  gel does not touch my hair ever!  It makes it hard and break. I only put it on baby hairs.  But you know gel is the main ingredient in curly girl LOL  Gel is NOT a part of TC at all. A lot of 4 girls use ecostyler to smooth their texture, but I don't use gel at all.
 
Also, if you don''t like glycerine, you wont you deva curl curly girl's set it free... because its main ingredient is glycerine. LOL 

aucurlsnaturalle  is no sort of 3 texture. she is a fine haired 4 a/b. The last video shows her hair STRETCHED FROM A braid out. That is what you do at night with TC....braids.  That is why her hair looks close to a 3 in one video. Anyone's will look like that if they do a braid out and oil the following days. I am 3. her hair is no where near a 3  texture unstretched. Also,  that gray haired woman did not have loose hair. She has 4c hair but she also said in the video she did it on STRETCHED DRY HAIR. So she put the gel on stretched out 4c hair and the eco styler kept it smooth looking like a jeri curl though her hair is 4c when wet with water. So no I did not show women with loser hair. They were just using the TC styling system which involves braiding the hair at night which stretches it. Ultimately the gray haired lady used gel from cg and separation and smoothing from tc.  cg scrunching or balling up of hair  would have made her hair a literal matted mess. I think the smoothing and separating with gel on dry, stretched hair was about the only way for her 4c hair to get that jheri  curl look.   The gel was stronger than the conditioner that tc recommends. So I think what she did was ingenious. She just should have added some oil to the mix for better results imo. Hers was a combination of the 2 methods because she used gel like cg instead of just conditioner (tc).

I think most ladies will end up, like you, taking bits and pieces from all systems and mixing and matching what will work for their hair.

PS Pink  it is obvious you are biased in favor of cg you misquoted so many people and told so many untruths in your last post I won't even bother to respond to it. 
I personally see something good in BOTH books. Smile I just want to send some love the way of the Black author because  Blacks do so much self loathing that they abhor one another instead of supporting anything from anyone Black. As long as a White face is placed on it, the Blacks will come in groves supporting it  Ouch. Very sad but it is what it shamefully is.  I read the book by the White woman today (curly girl) I appreciate it for what it offered but I could not personally relate to very much she talked about with my hair at all.. She addressed mainly the needs of White women, which is FINE. I really could relate more with the experiences of Teri LaFlesh and her struggles with her tight hair. But I am objective enough to take bits and pieces  from both authors. Honestly about all I could take from the curly girl book was using hair clips as counter weights, or pin curls and to stand up the top for height. She also showed a lot of nice photos of curly hair.

In the final analysis, both authors REALLY ARE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THINGS!!! 
They both say :
  • cowash
  • leave in conditioner
  • no heat
  • appreciate your natural texture and work with your curls.
All good so far. But here is where the 2 systems differ:
TC just says air dry and you can use any products that work for your hair  
CG says use drying gels but no cones. (so which is worst: hardening, stiff gels which dry and break the hair or  conditioning silicones?)
CG also allows for damaging blow drying and TC does not.
Cg preaches to scrunch or ball up your hair. This would make 3s/4s tighter and more of a matted mess  if you followed it as they say to the letter. Ball up kinky hair with hardening gel on it and hit it with a blow dryer?... are you kidding me? Confused Kinky hair will do MUCH better with shingling and SMOOTHING than any kind of scrunching or balling up which can mat it. 
TC talks about smoothing, and separating with lots of conditioner until you see smooth definition. (shingling which is known to be effective for definition in afro hair)
 In view of all this, I guess it is now OBVIOUS why Teri LaFlesh has hair below her butt, while the white woman who wrote curly girl has ear length hair.  I will go with the classic  length hair and silicones thank you very much.

  There are only a few minor differences in their opinions.  So it boils down to who do you want to hear it from. LOL
Other than that:
  • Curly Girl is trying to impose volumizing, drying Caucasian styling techniques on already thick, dry Black hair.
  • While Tight Curly uses shingling which is known and proven to create definition in Black curls)
.Finally for night care:
  • Curly Girl I guess implies pineappling  and redoing it every morning 
  • Tight Curly recommends braids or twists at night to stretch and protect from tangling.  In the morning braid outs or twist outs with a little moisture/conditioner where needed.
OH, one last thing, the author of curly girls contradicts herself about not liking silicones because the brand of hair color she produces  and promotes is SILICONE BASED and full of many silicones.


Edited by LadyAradia - Mar 02 2014 at 5:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 1:00pm
@ladyaradia wow, you managed to misconstrue everything i said. you know what, hopefully people will actually read what i wrote and the message i was trying to get across instead of grazing over the whole thing and jumping to racially charged assumptions. its like everything i just explained went over your head.

 if you want to block your self off to beneficial hair practices thats great, but please dont corrupt my message to be about buying divacurl products and heralding white women. the entire point of this point is to educate the neglected type 4b 4c and 4a hair group, our hair simply is the most dehydrated, and difficult to manage because of that. if you want to brush over it and force things on ppl that dont work for them, just because its the "real black way" please go to a different post. this is the exact kind of mindset i am confronting in this post.

no ones black hair is the same, and i am not recommending products. i am recommending an extremely valuable METHOD AND REGIMEN, and youtubers who have managed to reach maximum hydration in their naturally tightly coiled and course hair, which is rare to find, it isnt about white women or any of that. out of all the youtubers i mentioned, NONE of them use divacare products as their staple or in their regimines to max hydration. in fact, the products i did see were kccc, flaxseed gel, kinky curly conditioner, tresseme naturals, ect.

i'm done with the back and forth on this, i cant stand when you give all this good information and someone just misconstrues what your saying. if someone was grazing over this forum and read your comment, it could be enough for the whole message i put out to be invalidated, when it is clear not only do you not know what you are agruing against, but you didnt read or comprehend the majority of what i took my time to write. btw, all gel is not the same, and some people benefit from using gel. their are different types of gels one can use that will get the job done with out the added proteins and plastics in them. if youre dead set on what you think fine, this post is for people with an open mind.

@exceedinggrace. im so glad you took advantage of the information i put together. I agree ecostyler was really drying for the hair, its one of the drying factors i had to idenify and get rid of in my regimen. the gel is not botanical, and has ingredients like hydrolzyed wheat protien, which my low porosity hair hates. i avoid any product with that ingridient in it, my hair hates it. i see you use kccc, which is a better choice. thank you so much for writing your experience, taking the time to read all the information, and contibuting positively to this post.


Edited by pinkecube - Mar 02 2014 at 1:02pm
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