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Too soft on whites: Is mugabe right about Mandela?

 
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JoliePoufiasse View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:01pm
What say you??? I have some opinions on the matter but I'd rather get the views of those who are intimately familiar with both countries' histories. Did Mandela do what he had to do or did he make the necessary compromises given the situation? How do you feel about Mugabe's hard line? Do you feel it was foolish for the economy or do you feel he was entitled to throw them out after everything that's happened? I know the dude is controversial in his own right, I just want to know what people on bhm really think of him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:06pm
Here's the article that spurred this thread:
 

    

Zimbabwe's Mugabe Says Nelson Mandela Too Soft On Whites, In Documentary

Agence France Presse  |  By Johannes Myburgh Posted:

     
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Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe criticises Nelson Mandela for being too soft on whites, in a documentary giving a rare and intimate look into the family life of one of Africa's longest serving and most vilified leaders.

In a cosy lunch setting with his wife and children, the 89-year old speaks on a wide range of issues from his controversial hold on power, to his relationships with former British premiers Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher.

The two-and-a-half hour interview, described in detail by British and South African media ahead of its airing, shows the usually bellicose and sharp-tongued Mugabe as a loving family man.

Dali Tambo, the son of South African anti-apartheid hero Oliver Tambo, produced the documentary, which will be broadcast on South African public television next Sunday.

In the programme, Tambo dines with Mugabe's family at his wife Grace's dairy farm.

The interview comes just months before crucial general elections in the country which in recent decades has gone from being the breadbasket of southern Africa to its biggest problem child.

One of Africa's most popular liberation leaders, Mugabe has clashed with the West over controversial policies which saw white-owned farms violently seized over a decade ago.

In neighbouring South Africa, where white land ownership is still a flashpoint, Mugabe says former president Nelson Mandela was not hard enough.

He said former colonial masters Britain -- with whom he has had a fraught relationship over the land grabs -- "will praise you only if you are doing things that please them".

"Mandela has gone a bit too far in doing good to the non-black communities, really in some cases at the expense of (blacks)," Mugabe said of his former South African counterpart.

"That's being too saintly, too good, too much of a saint," he is quoted from the documentary in South Africa's Sunday Independent.

Despite Mugabe's disagreements with former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who died in April, he says he preferred the Iron Lady to her later successor Tony Blair.

"Mrs Thatcher, you could trust her. But of course what happened later was a different story with the Labour Party and Blair, who you could never trust," said Mugabe.

"Who can ever believe what Mr Blair says? Here we call him Bliar."

But despite having governed for 32 years, Africa's oldest ruler also insists on staying in power.

According to The Guardian in Britain, the topic of the upcoming vote unleashes Mugabe's fiery rhetoric as he bangs his fist on an armrest and insists: "There is a fight to fight."

"My people still need me," he told Tambo.

"And when people still need you to lead them, it's not time, sir, it doesn't matter how old you are, to say goodbye."

Mugabe is currently sharing power with his rival Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai after violent disputed polls in 2008. No date has yet been set for this year's elections although Mugabe is pressing for them to go ahead as soon as possible.

According to The Guardian, Mugabe pours out his heart during the meal on his love for his wife and their "oneness".

In unusual candour Mugabe also explains his affair with Grace while still married to his sickly first wife Sally -- he wanted to give his mother grandchilden.

"As Sally was still going through her last few days, although it might have appeared to some as cruel, I said to myself 'well, it's not just myself needing children, my mother has all the time said, ah, am I going to die without seeing grandchildren'."

He married Grace, his secretary over 40 years his junior, after Sally Mugabe died in 1992.

The couple have three children.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote melikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:06pm
mugabe's plan was ruined by corruption. 
he took away farms from whites and instead of giving the farms to actual farmers he gave it to the politically connected. 

i am no expert on south africa but from everything i've seen i think whites were not let off scott free for what they did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by melikey melikey wrote:

mugabe's plan was ruined by corruption. 
he took away farms from whites and instead of giving the farms to actual farmers he gave it to the politically connected. 

i am no expert on south africa but from everything i've seen i think whites were not let off scott free for what they did.
 
Yes, I'm aware of the Mugabe administration's corruption and dubious redistribution of land.
I just wonder if whites were not indeed let off kind of scott free in post-apartheid South Africa. I understand that it was a strategy to avoid economic collapse but I remember at the time that the Truth and Reconciliation proceedings without any sentences being handed out kinda got on my nerves. Would like Africans to chime in...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sistagal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 3:17am
Bluuurgh Mugabe's rein went tits up years ago. Now his people wish they were still under colonial rule because it was better back then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 9:46am
Originally posted by sistagal sistagal wrote:

Bluuurgh Mugabe's rein went tits up years ago. Now his people wish they were still under colonial rule because it was better back then
 
Yes, I know he's a nightmare. I'm just wondering what is people's take on the Mandela administration's handling of whites guilty of "war crimes" so to speak, after apartheid. Does anyone think they got off too easy or do you feel it had to be done that way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniper angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 10:22am
Originally posted by sistagal sistagal wrote:

Bluuurgh Mugabe's rein went tits up years ago. Now his people wish they were still under colonial rule because it was better back then

they wish they were still under colonial rule really was it that bad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sistagal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 10:39am
Mandela had dreams of a rainbow nation. His dreams didn't work out as well like Mugabe's but they created less heartache in a way. They didn't work out because whites in South Africa still have the majority rule & a lot of favour in general. Everything is still very much on their side. You can say "they got away with it" BUT the people still find ways to be successful albeit there still are the poor people there just like any other 3rd world country. Because of this somewhat "harmony" that remained, the country's economy didn't fall. Which means South Africa is kept of the map & some hope remains whatever your race & not politically affiliated.

Mugabe on the other hand... He took away the rights of the whites that were bringing in a big chunk of income into the country & pissed off a lot of other whites buying & selling into the country. Then after he *&%^$#@Eed up the country's money he went & *&%^$#@Eed up individual people's money by ensuring that making a living was political. If you are on the wrong side be careful or you'll be screwed. Fear & hatred brew whilst the economy fell. The zim dollar collapsed, people are jobless & suffering he's refusing aid etc etc. Zimbabwe is still a lovely country though...if you have money. If you don't & live in the wrong part you're screwed.

During colonial rule there was no political issues as violent as now, people went to the best schools some getting scholarships to top universities in the UK or US, there was never food shortages & the economy soared above all other African countries. That's why people say it was better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afrokock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 11:16am
eh!

not quite s.g

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote afrokock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 11:36am
Originally posted by sistagal sistagal wrote:

Mandela had dreams of a rainbow nation. His dreams didn't work out as well like Mugabe's but they created less heartache in a way. They didn't work out because whites in South Africa still have the majority rule & a lot of favour in general. Everything is still very much on their side. You can say "they got away with it" BUT the people still find ways to be successful albeit there still are the poor people there just like any other 3rd world country. Because of this somewhat "harmony" that remained, the country's economy didn't fall. Which means South Africa is kept of the map & some hope remains whatever your race & not politically affiliated.

Mugabe on the other hand... He took away the rights of the whites that were bringing in a big chunk of income into the country & pissed off a lot of other whites buying & selling into the country. Then after he *&%^$#@Eed up the country's money he went & *&%^$#@Eed up individual people's money by ensuring that making a living was political. If you are on the wrong side be careful or you'll be screwed. Fear & hatred brew whilst the economy fell. The zim dollar collapsed, people are jobless & suffering he's refusing aid etc etc. Zimbabwe is still a lovely country though...if you have money. If you don't & live in the wrong part you're screwed.

During colonial rule there was no political issues as violent as now, people went to the best schools some getting scholarships to top universities in the UK or US, there was never food shortages & the economy soared above all other African countries. That's why people say it was better


this is very incorrect. and im not sure if you are being somewhat sarcy sg.
i'll just point out education for now as i have to catch my barbers

prior to 1980, the natives as tehy were called by thew rhodhies were only allowed to be educated up to what is now grade 5. and even then, less than 50% of the local population had access to schools. schools were run by missionaries and that was your best bet of getting somewhat of an education beyond that.

within the first 5 years of mugabes rule, overall literacy levels in the country shot up to 95% with a 97% rate of children of school age enrolled into school. furthermore, schools were built, all over the place. historiclly private school opened up to the locals too. this is why even with zimbabwe's poor socioeconomic and political status its literacy levels over the past 10 years are still in the 80's. the rhodhesians did not do that

when with tertiary education, UZ was free up until the mid-late 90's when the infamous riots started with the introduction of loans, mind you this was somewhat synchronous with the IMF's mandated ESAP programe. and to ensure a university educated working population, education links which had already been established with what was considered communists states prior to the mid 90's was ramped up a bit. education prog's with cuba, malaysia, japan, and the eastern european block became more prominent. there were also govt funded '1st world' scholarship programs that too.

if there is one thing mugabe did well after independence was ensuring his country was educated and he did that very well. only now in the post 2006-mid 2008 era is all that crumbling away.
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