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Topic ClosedShe (CSUNGRL09) was really offended! LOL

 
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TokyoRose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 5:09am
Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:


okay, maybe i was looking for another answer about what he would do if he was wrong. not whether or not he thought he was wrong, cause that is obvious. he is arrogant enough to believe he is right though, so I don't understand the point he was proving. I think if he worded it differently it would have had more of an impact on me.


What makes you say that he is arrogant?  Did you listen to what he was saying?  Have you even ventured onto other videos where he talks about what he believes?  Again, he says that he is 99% sure there is no god, but he doesn't dismiss the possibility completely.  IF he is presented with evidence, then he will re-evaluate what he believes to be true as far as god. 

If you can't understand the point he was making, then I am afraid it's because you don't WANT to understand.  Just remember: You are ONE god away from being atheist, too.  I seriously doubt you believe in Thor, non-abrahamic gods, ceiling cat or pink unicorns.

Quote & much of what i've presented are anecdotes b/c thats what having faith is... ("confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a belief that is not based on proof.") its a personal story or journey in belief. it can't really be explained unless you know exactly how it felt to see, be or hear what i have seen, where i have been or what i have heard. i believe i said that in the previous post. i don't expect you to understand it, just want you to know that there are people out there who have experienced things that you can never understand unless you have been there...doesn't mean its not true cause you've never experienced it.

This is not something that can be measured and it leaves for very open interpretation.  You can't really prove that what you have "experienced" isn't a figment of your imagination, either. 

Quote i have a love for science & understand that some people need to be able to touch, see, taste, hear and feel things to know that they are there, but for all you know, the things that are in the science books you are reading (not all of course) could be falsified the same way you say the bible is a false history.

So, are you saying that the theory of gravity is a figment of my imagination?  Hum...
There is science and there is junk science.  Most of the scientific community will not accept a theory unless it can be tested. 

When I look at the bible, I look at it from a scientific and historical perspective.  We know that the bible has been written by several different people AND it has been INFLUENCED by several other deity stories.  As I will repeat, here, the story of Jesus was written 65 years after his supposed death.  Historians can't even agree that there really even was such a person as "Jesus."  There are theories out there that "Jesus" was actually a symbol for several different people.  Others say that "Jesus" was simply made up all together. 

Quote I am sure you have not reproduced or measured everything you have read about in the field of science...but you believe it b/c someone said that they have evidence. science is also not always correct, but constantly edited so nothing is really set in stone there either.

And science is not so arrogant as to believe that one theory is the only theory for a particular topic.  Scientists even say "WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION." 

Why not just shut non-believers up and say, "Okay, here is the evidence."  But it is never produced.  It would make things so much easier.

You do realize that this sort of argument would never work in court, right?  When talking with a believer, god doesn't even have to show up in court!  People get to tell stories of hearsay and they don't have to produce any forensic evidence. 

Quote i don't have anything against science at all. I have many family members who are scientists for NIH but remain true to their faith. the two don't always have to at ends with each other.

I SERIOUSLY doubt your relatives believe in the literal talking snake.  Or that a birth can happen without sex.  If that were the case, I am sure that they wouldn't be working for NIH, and if they do believe in all of that, they shouldn't be working for NIH.

Quote recently, scientists have reason to believe that man kind as we know it today can be traced back to two individuals in africa. one male, scientific adam, and one female, mitochondrial eve. sounds kind of like the story of adam and eve to me... a story that very well might be proven to be true eventually. the bible has been translated so many times, that dates, names and words may have been misinterpreted (hence the contradictions and historical inaccuracies), but the point of the stories have remained. so what if science was to validate the story? then what? (this is a rhetorical question.)

Oh, here we go.  First and foremost, it doesn't sound anything like the biblical adam and eve and this is really what bothers me about some Christians.  The writers of the bible knew absolutely NOTHING about evolution.  They were talking about two (imaginary) homo sapiens they decided to call Adam and Eve.  The remains these scientists found don't show that these two had two children called "Cain" and "Able".  The bible can get away with being interpreted to the point of out right lies--something we could never get away with.  You can't simply say, "Well, THAT'S what the bible meant" every time we come across evidence that proves the bible WRONG. 

No one has ever found and determined for certain the first human beings on earth.  It is simply impossible to do so and if the scientists claimed that this adam and eve were for certain the "real" adam and eve, they would probably lose respect in the scientific community.  The oldest human remains; however, have been found in Africa.  If anything, those remains prove a stronger case for evolution than they do for biblical falsehoods.

Quote at the end of the day, believer or not, some or all of what we each believe may be wrong. we can defend our sides all day but I know better than to hold my breath.


True, but on my side, I just ask one question, "Show me the evidence."
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doubleaqueen772 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 8:46am
Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that
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TokyoRose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 8:49am
Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that


Well, to be honest, it is no more of a bait thread than the one in TTT, entitled "to the non-believer..."
They both could have had a discussion over PM or discussed it further, here.  Neither party is completely innocent of blame.

Which leads me to ask...why does every thread dealing with religion have to be a "bait thread"?  Why not have a controversial discussion just for the heck of it? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that

thank you queen, i agree that some things that were said were disrespectful but i am only addressing those members who have something to say or constructively critique, not those who have something they've got to prove so bad that they are completely rude about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that


Well, to be honest, it is no more of a bait thread than the one in TTT, entitled "to the non-believer..."
They both could have had a discussion over PM or discussed it further, here.  Neither party is completely innocent of blame.

Which leads me to ask...why does every thread dealing with religion have to be a "bait thread"?  Why not have a controversial discussion just for the heck of it? 

i think she is referring to how badly this could end. most religious & political threads never get very far.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:27pm
*Plays violin for people who are ass-hurt over it and don't see the hypocrisy*

Besides, why would I PM her so that her underhanded ass would:

A) Broadcast the most favorable parts to the rest of the forum and just not use names to garner support
B) Or Say that she didn't see the PM and just not respond at all

Then, we don't want her sensitive ass saying that I privately attacked her. Oh, no! Cry

Bait post? LOL

GTFO!


Edited by NewFreedom11 - Dec 07 2011 at 2:51pm
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Midna View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:55pm
DAMN! Maybe I'm just being biased, but NewFreedom verbally whooped ass with a smile on her face!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:



What makes you say that he is arrogant?  Did you listen to what he was saying?  Have you even ventured onto other videos where he talks about what he believes?  Again, he says that he is 99% sure there is no god, but he doesn't dismiss the possibility completely.  IF he is presented with evidence, then he will re-evaluate what he believes to be true as far as god. 

If you can't understand the point he was making, then I am afraid it's because you don't WANT to understand.  Just remember: You are ONE god away from being atheist, too.  I seriously doubt you believe in Thor, non-abrahamic gods, ceiling cat or pink unicorns.


its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?

Quote
This is not something that can be measured and it leaves for very open interpretation.  You can't really prove that what you have "experienced" isn't a figment of your imagination, either.


i can't measure it, but since i am healthy, conscious and rational i think i can say that these experiences were not a figment of my imagination. 

Quote So, are you saying that the theory of gravity is a figment of my imagination?  Hum...
There is science and there is junk science.  Most of the scientific community will not accept a theory unless it can be tested. 

When I look at the bible, I look at it from a scientific and historical perspective.  We know that the bible has been written by several different people AND it has been INFLUENCED by several other deity stories.  As I will repeat, here, the story of Jesus was written 65 years after his supposed death.  Historians can't even agree that there really even was such a person as "Jesus."  There are theories out there that "Jesus" was actually a symbol for several different people.  Others say that "Jesus" was simply made up all together.


let's be real here. it is apparent that gravity exists. i did not say which scientific theories I was referring too so why choose gravity as a argument ? the bible touches on gravity. In Job 26:7 it says, "he spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." isn't it true that gravity is an invisible force between objects that have mass, that allows the celestial bodies of the heavens to "suspend" themselves in mid air ? like i said science and religion do not always have to be at odds with each other.

Quote And science is not so arrogant as to believe that one theory is the only theory for a particular topic.  Scientists even say "WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION."

Why not just shut non-believers up and say, "Okay, here is the evidence."  But it is never produced.  It would make things so much easier.

You do realize that this sort of argument would never work in court, right?  When talking with a believer, god doesn't even have to show up in court!  People get to tell stories of hearsay and they don't have to produce any forensic evidence.

thank God i'm not in court then! but for the reason bolded above, this is why non-believers can't convince me on the scientific rationale of why religion is false, b/c science isn't always right, and theories change all the time. scientist don't know all the answers. again, if scientists start proving the validity of biblical stories, then what?

Quote  I SERIOUSLY doubt your relatives believe in the literal talking snake.  Or that a birth can happen without sex.  If that were the case, I am sure that they wouldn't be working for NIH, and if they do believe in all of that, they shouldn't be working for NIH.


another great thing I love about the bible is that its lots of witty metaphors and most of the stories are figurative so that the reader can interpret the text for themselves. its kind of like poetry. its beautiful really. i am sure many believers believe in the jist of these stories. since the bible was written by man it is going to have some flaws, but b/c is was inspired by God, the message remains. again, science and religion don't always have to go head to head so if my relatives wanted to work for NIH and we capable of obtaining jobs there, they are obviously rational enough to make sense of it all. 

Quote  Oh, here we go.  First and foremost, it doesn't sound anything like the biblical adam and eve and this is really what bothers me about some Christians.  The writers of the bible knew absolutely NOTHING about evolution.  They were talking about two (imaginary) homo sapiens they decided to call Adam and Eve.  The remains these scientists found don't show that these two had two children called "Cain" and "Able".  The bible can get away with being interpreted to the point of out right lies--something we could never get away with.  You can't simply say, "Well, THAT'S what the bible meant" every time we come across evidence that proves the bible WRONG. 

No one has ever found and determined for certain the first human beings on earth.  It is simply impossible to do so and if the scientists claimed that this adam and eve were for certain the "real" adam and eve, they would probably lose respect in the scientific community.  The oldest human remains; however, have been found in Africa.  If anything, those remains prove a stronger case for evolution than they do for biblical falsehoods.

you knew this was coming. you said it yourself, " Scientists even say 'WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.'" so maybe with some more research they will figure out that two sons named cain and able existed. the discovery of two ancestors that all of humanity came from is hardly proving the bible wrong. 

Quote True, but on my side, I just ask one question, "Show me the evidence."

again, faith is believing in something without having proof. its PERSONAL. you said my anecdotes don't count so what could i possibly show you? &if you experienced what i have, you will probably chuck it up to mere coincidence or human will power so something like that. 


Edited by csungrl09 - Dec 07 2011 at 3:04pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 5:47pm
Csungrl09, I really don't think you get it, basically the only thing that makes God, any God real, is the people's belief in that deity, there is no actual real evidence that any God truly exists. So a person believing in a purple unicorn, green aliens, or mermaids is no less unsound. You can't say, yeah, I believe in this spiritual being that I never saw before but YOU, believing in (insert fictional mythical creature here) is CRAZY. There is no evidence supporting either, so your belief in God is no more important than their belief that he doesn't exist or the little girl who believes in Santa or fairies.

Quote its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?


You, we, most of us, mainly believe in one God, if the scientific community were to one day disprove the theory that there is actually a God, where would you be? Would you convert to another religion or would you lose your faith in the higher power and stop believing altogether, which would, in turn, make you an atheist, I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this. You baffle me, and before you start, I believe in God, don't believe in the bible or organized religion,ultimately, I'm spiritual, believing in a higher power trying to live a good, decent life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Athena88 Athena88 wrote:

Csungrl09, I really don't think you get it, basically the only thing that makes God, any God real, is the people's belief in that deity, there is no actual real evidence that any God truly exists. So a person believing in a purple unicorn, green aliens, or mermaids is no less unsound. You can't say, yeah, I believe in this spiritual being that I never saw before but YOU, believing in (insert fictional mythical creature here) is CRAZY. There is no evidence supporting either, so your belief in God is no more important than their belief that he doesn't exist or the little girl who believes in Santa or fairies.

Quote its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?


You, we, most of us, mainly believe in one God, if the scientific community were to one day disprove the theory that there is actually a God, where would you be? Would you convert to another religion or would you lose your faith in the higher power and stop believing altogether, which would, in turn, make you an atheist, I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this. You baffle me, and before you start, I believe in God, don't believe in the bible or organized religion,ultimately, I'm spiritual, believing in a higher power trying to live a good, decent life.

thank you for explaining. i do understand now that someone took the time out to explain instead of saying that i don't understand because i don't want to.  why is it sooo hard to believe that i needed it to be explained better? &&now that i understand, i say this again....like i've said before. faith is personal so I don't expect anyone who hasn't experienced what i have to believe me. i am just saying that because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. &&no i wouldn't stop believing in god b/c science isn't 100% accurate & i have experienced things that could only be at the hand of God. 
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