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jonesable View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jonesable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by zolloh zolloh wrote:

Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:


idk its a fine line.
You being afraid doesn't mean something criminal has taken place.
 
for some reason I think of those murder cases and those white ppl wailing that they werescared.
nothing was actually done but they just felt scared
that's exactly what makes it criminal...it was unwanted and there was coercion (implied or outright)...at the very minimum it was sexual assault


No
I guess we have to use the reasonable person test.

Bc if you are afraid and the person hasn't really done anything then no.

Like my example on page one.
Your own perception of the situation doesn't change the reality of what's going on.

Was there something said, implied...something.

I mean look at that man who shot the girl bc she came to his door in the middle of the night.

Didn't he claim he was startled and afraid .
But wasn't she just looking to use the phone or something .

Him being afraid didn't mean someone was actually doing something illegal.


It's just not enough

Edited by jonesable - Feb 23 2014 at 12:47pm
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JoliePoufiasse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:49pm
At the end of the day, instinct is everything. This man I was involved with who I felt had the potential to be violent was also someone that I might have married if it wasn't for that feeling. Broke up with him and felt some regret over the years but yet something inside me knew it was the right thing to do. Came back some 15 years later trying to get me back and I still felt danger and turned him down again, even though it was really hard because I had nothing tangible to go by. But I believe to this day I did the right thing.

If your instinct is telling you that it's rape, it probably is. Again, the problem is you cannot prove it in the court of law. So all I can say is listen to your instincts early on. They usually don't fail you.
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browneyez4548 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote browneyez4548 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:52pm
Co-sign with everyone in this thread.

1. I also believe that this is how some young girls have trains ran on them and how they lost their virginity as well...I know of more than a few of them
2. Yes it's rape but.....
3. I also agree w/Jones. Was there any action beforehand? Simply "thinking" it, doesn't necessarily make it fact..


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zolloh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zolloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

Originally posted by zolloh zolloh wrote:

Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:


idk its a fine line.
You being afraid doesn't mean something criminal has taken place.
 
for some reason I think of those murder cases and those white ppl wailing that they werescared.
nothing was actually done but they just felt scared
that's exactly what makes it criminal...it was unwanted and there was coercion (implied or outright)...at the very minimum it was sexual assault


No
I guess we have to use the reasonable person test.

Bc if you are afraid and the person hasn't really done anything then no.

Like my example on page one.
Your own perception of the situation doesn't change the reality of what's going on.

Was there something said, implied...something.

I mean look at that man who shot the girl bc she came to his door in the middle of the night.

Didn't he claim he was startled and afraid .
But wasn't she just looking to use the phone or something .

Him being afraid didn't mean someone was actually doing something illegal.


It's just not enough
The reality and perception would be considered from the victim's point of view: she felt afraid that he would forcibly rape her if she said no, that's implied coercion....if sexual assault cases were viewed from the defendant's POV then no one/very few would be convicted just based on the "she wanted it" defense which is used majority of the time.
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Princess Grace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Princess Grace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:01pm
Wouldn't something have to happen to make you THINK it though??? Fear is not the normal reaction before sex. Plenty of things happen that can't be proven in court, doesn't make them imaginary or less valid to the person.

Creepy guys like that know what they are doing.
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browneyez4548 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote browneyez4548 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:05pm
To answer the OP other question. Has it ever happened? Kinda. We didn't have sex. But nicca was aggressive AF. I was actually sore the next morning, from fighting against him. He left angry and in his feelings...but he left.

Actually scratch that. I was never scared in this situation. I was more angry and annoyed than anything. Not the same...


Edited by browneyez4548 - Feb 23 2014 at 1:06pm
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JoliePoufiasse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by Princess Grace Princess Grace wrote:


Creepy guys like that know what they are doing.


They really do. This type of dudes have experience in the art of manipulation. They,ve either done it before in some form or another or they're just developing their modus operandi. They pick their victims and the time and place as well.
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zolloh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote zolloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:15pm
i think that Jones' argument is that unless the guy said or did something beforehand then its not rape, not just what the lady felt....what came first, the lady's fear or whatever he said/did?....i'm saying that in sexual assault situations, the fear can come before the guy says/does what is considered outright coercion....(correct me if im understanding you wrong, Jonesy)
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jonesable View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jonesable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:20pm
I think so Zo
 
I'm looking for the trigger
 
like were things going ok then a bad feeling came over you .
 
Has he tried to manipulate you and is a plan in motion in his mind or is it just a feeling you have apart from what's actually taking place.
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juniper angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniper angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 1:37pm
I agree with jones I dont get it . So if I guy your seeing is like if you dont sex me ill leave you thats coersion but is it rape.
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