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Random philosophical sh*t

 
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Derri View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 10:01am
Originally posted by nekamarie83 nekamarie83 wrote:

the question also, makes one think of the illusion of free will. 

Tell me more about the illusion of free will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote nekamarie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

 Tell me more about the illusion of free will.
short of the long of it in two ways:

1-- am i really making choices, or is what i do random or instinct or societal training? 

2-- can i really consider the choices i make to be free when there are greater forces at play before i even make said choice? ex: when i kid, i could pick what i wanted to wear to school... from 3 outfits my mother put in front of me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Derri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 12:19pm
Oh, thanks Neka. My mind was thinking something similar.

Now my mind is thinking, it would make sense for everything that happens within a relative reality to be relatively real as well..

It would also make sense for that which happens in absolute reality to then be absolutely real.

That leads my mind to wonder, what is not real and what is real?

I know that the idea of a me separate from all of nature experiencing a separate life from all of nature is not real.
I know that there is only one life, not MY life.
I know that the I that understands this is not real, (but the understanding is real) because we as people have misidentified with our mind.

A baby laughs, yet he does not identify his mind to his laughter.
Laugher is experienced by that baby without his mind thinking, 'i am laughing now'. Laughter just is. Laughter is real.
A baby does not understand 'I' but yet experiences life. It is not until the child grows and develops the language that is spoken in the society that his mind starts to think in terms of 'I, me, over here separate from them, they over there'

Maybe freewill comes from the mere fact of choice, whether stimulated by society and language, or by what is available naturally; just the fact that there is choice, as opposed to one thing and no other things than it.

Maybe free will has everything to do with choice, but nothing to do with the mind's indentification with choice.

Maybe a separate, individual entity that chooses for own reasons is merely a way of thinking, and that is the illusion.

Maybe the will is a universal one will, and not an individual 'i' will.


Edited by Derri - Mar 19 2014 at 1:30pm
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nekamarie83 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nekamarie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

I know that the I that understands this is not real, (but the understanding is real) because we as people have misidentified with our mind.

A baby laughs, yet he does not identify his mind to his laughter.
Laugher is experienced by that baby without his mind thinking, 'i am laughing now'. Laughter just is. Laughter is real.
A baby does not understand 'I' but yet experiences life. It is not until the child grows and develops the language that is spoken in the society that his mind starts to think in terms of 'I, me, over here separate from them, they over there'
You're welcome derri. And for the bolded-- what do you (if anything, generally) attribute this rationale to? One of the sources that stand out to me is descartes; "I think, therefore I am." My retort/counter to that has always been the latter of your reply regarding the baby. Not to mention that thought =\= truth and one's can play tricks via perception.

Eta: sorry this was dreadfully late

Edited by nekamarie83 - Mar 19 2014 at 6:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by nekamarie83 nekamarie83 wrote:

it does, to a degree, yes. 

do consider exercises to challenge you and encourage your willing suspension of disbelief. even something as basic as nothing but positives for an hour, thinking how you can re-frame a negative thought to be more aware of positives or even disengaging yourself from the equation(s). 

like, to a degree, many things aren't happening to you. they're happening and you just happen to be there. 
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote noneyons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 8:34pm
next on my agenda is learning not to give so much Cry  i'm a giver by nature but people find a way to misconstrue it always. 

so weird. like, 'something must be going on in your life for you to be putting this much effort into helping someone else'. wtf? 

i'm an alien or some sh*t. something in the world has gone awryLOL


Edited by noneyons - Mar 21 2014 at 8:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sexyandfamous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 10:08pm
I just read something about stoicism and found interesting...

"The Stoics taught that destructive emotions resulted from errors in judgment, and that a sage, or person of 'moral and intellectual perfection,' would not suffer such emotions
....they thought that the best indication of an individual's philosophy was not what a person said but how they behaved.

"The Stoics did, in fact, hold that emotions like fear or envy (or impassioned sexual attachments, or passionate love of anything whatsoever) either were, or arose from, false judgements and that the sage—a person who had attained moral and intellectual perfection—would not undergo them"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sexyandfamous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 10:10pm
Actually, attachments in general (be it sexual, material, etc) are damaging to anyone, because you fool yourself into believing that you NEED X and end up either: unhappy when you do not have it (because you think you need it) or when you have it, unsatisfied, because you don't need it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote noneyons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 10:15pm
i like the way you think. 

in my head i understood the damaging effects of attachment for some time now, but i'm still working on breaking free from them all. 

it's daunting to balance caring too much and allowing life to take its course. i'm a work in progress. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2014 at 10:18pm
The way I think, I don't have enough attachments and I am preparing myself for any potential fallout. Not something I'd recommend to everyone but I'm going to give it a shot.
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