I'll probably get shredded for this comment, but in the situation that happened on the beach - did you do anything except saying "I don’t want to," once or twice? Was he aggressive in any way? Did you make him aware that you really don't want to?
Cause sometimes (obviously not always, as your story shows) when the girl says "I don't want to" or something similar, she doesn't mean it. She might want it, but feels bad about having sex because of conservative upbringing / whatever else. She might want it, but feel insecure about being naked and just wants to feel warmer and be reassured that those 4 kilos she put up last month doesn't mean a thing. Etc. Did you always in your life mean it when you said "I don't want to"?
I don't say if your situation was a rape or not. It probably was. But I think it is not a 100% simple answer. You actually said "I don't want to" . But what if a girl doesn't want to have sex, but does not even say so to a man (just she knows in her head, that she is doing it despite not wanting to)? I know that a perfect man can read nonverbal communication like Joe Navarro, but for imperfect man, especially after night of drinking and having fun, it isn't that easy.
you are implying that during sex men cannot read the body language of women. I'm calling bullsh*t in this. Men can ABSOLUTELY read the body language of an unwilling woman. They continue to have sex though because they feel entitled to it. "I showed her all the sights, I paid for drinks, I stayed with her until dawn, I'm entitled to sex in return" is probably what went through that guys mind. Because that's what women are to most men; orifices for your penises, bodies for sexual enjoyment. Men are great at reading body language, at least that's what we're told when they're negotiating deals between themselves. Except this ability magically disappears as soon as there's a woman there for sex. BULLsh*t. And finally, you seem to have missed the bit where she states she said no. Clearly. Please do tell, if a woman saying no actually means yes, how the hell are we supposed to say no????
Hello Peter, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, which I don't think are in need of shredding! You're echoing what a lot of people probably think about this type of situation. I believe a big change in perspective is needed throughout society and I would like to ask a question: Is it the woman's responsibility to say no, or is it the man's job to seek verbal consent? You see, all too many people think it's the former rather than the latter - that a woman should scream and shout and fight to get out of the situation if she doesn't really want to go through with it, but one of the most basic human responses to fear, aside from fight or flight, is to freeze. It's an involuntary response that renders a person unable to deal effectively with this type of danger and you can read more about it here: http://www.lifecentre.uk.com/d....
When it comes to women who feel desire but have insecurities that are holding them back, it's important to understand that what she is seeking is reassurance and not sex, and that to forge ahead anyway would be a mistake - the key here is clear communication at all times.
Thanks again for your comment Peter, all the best to you.
Thanks for the answer. Freezing as a response to fear is the big problem here. I can see how this can lead to a situation, where man thinks they both had a great experience and woman not even thinks, but subconsciously feels raped. We should try to teach people to be empathic and communicate as good as possible all the time. The responsibility isn't one-sided. Neither it is the simply man role to search hard for consent (maybe noone ever taught him or spoke to him about how women work; also some top erotic moments come from having no verbal part at all, just pure passion). Nor it is the woman's role to have a pepper spray ready in her hand all the time (sometimes she might not even know, if she wants it or not).
As bad as it may sound, my subjective opinion is that in such "misscommunication rapes" it's both parties fault. It is his fault, he had sex with someone who doesn't want it. It is her fault she didn't communicate him, she is someone who doesn't want it.
Anyway this thing I called here miscommunication rape isn't something as traumatizing as a full forced one, am I right? Sorry for asking this so bluntly, I don't want to be callous, just trying to become more aware.
All best Shaheen and thank you for the work you put with this website, it is making a positive change, I'm sure.
I have to ask: why would a man want to put his penis in a woman who isn't asking for it by name? What is the point of that? Why is it incumbent upon the woman to make rejection crystal clear? Why is consent implied in your mind?
Cause there are situations when a woman doesn't ask for it by name or even says something like "I would prefer for us not to do it" and afterwards she says "Thank you, you were awesome" and has a look of great joy in her eyes. Speaking from personal experience. Will you call this a rape, because I did not stop when she asked for it?
This is exactly where I disagree. After this date rape (as you call it), we became a couple for a few months. If you call a date rape something that makes a woman happy (and man too), and results in two people having a relationship for few months, than it generates a problem for me.. Cause I don't want to be enthusiast of rapes. I agree with almost all the things that are written here (in both article and comments), but please remember not all women are as emancipated as you. Some of them have an implanted need to say no to sex, just because parents/church/culture/whatever taught them to have one, even when they actually want it.
Why do I need to remember this? You're not clairvoyant. No one is. How are you discerning between yes-no and no-no? Why is your right to sex on your timetable more important than securing enthusiastic consent?
You're excusing rape with your arguments. Only yes means yes. And I think you know this. You seem to want permission to coerce women into sex, and that's not what a man who respects women wants to do.
One thing about this case and the particular level of violence it entails really shines light on not just the power of rape, but the overall hatred for women. The way the victim was assaulted, one would think that there was a personal vendetta out for her. This level of violence doesn't just stop at rape, it continues completely into gender disparities.
The 2012 Delhi gang rape case involved Jyoti Singh Pandey, a female physiotherapyintern who was beaten and gang raped in Delhi on 16 December 2012, and died thirteen days later while undergoing emergency treatment in Singapore for brain and gastrointestinal damage from the assault. After watching a film in South Delhi in the early evening, she and a male companion boarded a bus, which was being driven as an unauthorized "joyride", thinking it was a public bus. The only other passengers on the bus were five men who were friends of the driver. All six, including the driver, were charged in connection with the assaults and have been arrested.
The victims, Jyoti Singh Pandey and her male friend, Awindra Pratap Pandey (who has not been reported to bear any relation to her), were on their way home after watching a film in Saket in South Delhi. They boarded a chartered bus at Munirka for Dwarka that was being driven by joyriders at about 9:30 pm. The minor among the accused had called for passengers telling them that it was going towards their destination. The woman's friend became suspicious when the bus deviated from its normal route and its doors were shut. When he objected, the group of six men already on board taunted the couple, asking what they were doing alone at such a late hour.
When Awindra tried to intervene, he was beaten, gagged and knocked unconscious with an iron rod. The men dragged the woman to the rear of the bus, beating her with the rod and raping her while the bus driver continued to drive. Medical reports later suggested that the woman suffered serious injuries to her abdomen, intestines and genitals due to the assault, and doctors say that the damage indicates that a blunt object (suspected to be the iron rod) may have been used for penetration. That rod was later described by police as being a rusted, L-shaped implement of the type used as a wheel jack handle. According to the International Business Times, a police spokesman said that the youngest attacker "sexually abused his victim twice and ripped out her intestines with his bare hands." According to police reports the woman attempted to fight off her assailants, biting three of the attackers and leaving bite marks on the accused men. After the beatings and rape ended, the gang threw the two from the moving bus. Then the accused allegedly tried to drive the bus over the woman but she was pulled aside by her male friend. One of the perpetrators later cleaned the vehicle. Police impounded it the next day.
Jyoti and Awindra were found by a passerby on the road, partially clothed and unconscious, around 11 pm. The passerby phoned the Delhi Police, who took the couple to a hospital, where Jyoti was given emergency treatment and placed on mechanical ventilation. She was found with only 5% of her intestines left inside of her. A doctor at the hospital later said that the "rod was inserted into her and it was pulled out with so much force that the act brought out her intestines also. That is probably the only thing that explains such severe damage to her intestines.”
Jemele hill is MY GIRLLL. I started getting heavily into football a couple of years ago, but didn't really have anyone to share that with because everyone was male and didn't want to listen to what I had to say. For a class last year I even wrote a paper on what it's like as a female sports fan (Got an A). I guess the whole point of this pointless story is that Jamele hill she looks like me (black female) and she is on espn. Because of that I really looked up to her as a pre-teen, and even now because I'd love to get into sports business. I used to read her blog every day.
But every blog post, tweet, youtube video of hers are always filled with racist or sexist comments. And, I feel none of her colleagues come to her defense like they have others who are highly criticized. It makes me sick tbh. She handles it really well from what I've seen. What I like about her is that, from what I see, she writes what's on her mind. She's not afraid to call out situations and show how racism has affected it. Doesn't even matter the comments. I respect that.
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