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Black Identity and Racism Collide in Brazil

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Topic: Black Identity and Racism Collide in Brazil
Posted By: tatee
Subject: Black Identity and Racism Collide in Brazil
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 7:46am

Black Identity and Racism Collide in Brazil

The country’s complex history with race gains the spotlight as the World Cup attempts to address the recent wave of racist attacks against black players.

By:
Posted:
 
450503878-neymar-of-brazil-dribbles-past-ivan-perisic-of-croatia
Neymar of Brazil dribbles past Ivan Perisic of Croatia in the first half during the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil Group A match between Brazil and Croatia at Arena de Sao Paulo June 12, 2014, in Sao Paulo.

Buda Mendes/Getty Images

Before teams representing their countries from around the world arrived in Brazil, the country’s president, Dilma Rousseff, took the opportunity to label 2014 the “anti-racism World Cup.”

The declaration came after a http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2011/03/30/german-fan-accused-of-throwing-a-racist-banana-at-brazil-soccer-star/" rel="nofollow - wave of racist incidents in soccer around the world targeting black players, many of whom are Brazilian. While it’s a well-intentioned gesture and a particularly important one for a World Cup being hosted in the country that’s home to the largest population of people of African descent outside of Africa, Brazil has a complex past and present when it comes to race.

That complexity can perhaps best be illustrated by the fact that many black Brazilians don’t think of themselves as black. Brazilian soccer star Neymar is a great example. Asked during an interview in 2010 if he had ever experienced racism, his response was, “Never.” He added, “Not inside nor outside of the soccer field. Even more because I'm not black, right?”

This denial of blackness may seem confusing to many Americans, because despite his long, straightened and occasionally blond hair, Neymar is clearly black. (Take a look at http://gatasnegrasbrasileiras.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/mc3a3enadineopaineymareairmc3a3rafaela2.jpg" rel="nofollow - a picture of young Neymar with his family.) But for Brazilians, being black is very different from what it is in the United States.


The darker a person is in Brazil, the more racism she or he is going to suffer. Light-skinned black people don’t identify as black most of the time,” says Daniela Gomes, a black Brazilian activist who is currently pursuing a doctorate in African Diaspora studies at the University of Texas. “A lot of people choose to deny their blackness. They don’t believe they are black, but they suffer racism without knowing why.”

Gomes calls it a “brainwash” that Brazilians go through in a country that likes to hold itself up as a model for racial harmony. But she also points to differences in the histories of the United States and Brazil. “We never had segregation, we never had the one-drop rule, we never had those kinds of things that are so normal for an African American,” she said. “What happened in Brazil was the opposite.”

Integration and miscegenation were actually government policy in Brazil. Around the time that slaves were freed, in 1888, the government sought to whiten its population through the importation of European immigrants. This idea was made law by Decree 528 in 1890 and opened the country’s borders to foreign immigrants, except for those from Africa and Asia.



The goal of this immigration effort was depicted in an 1895 painting by Brazilian artist Modesto Brocos known as http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Modesto_Brocos#mediaviewer/File:Reden%C3%A7%C3%A3o.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Redemption of Ham,  which features a black grandmother, mixed-race mother, white father and white baby. The grandmother stands to the left with her hands raised in prayer, praising God that her grandson is white. This, says Brazilian entrepreneur and activist Carlos Alberto David, is the “final point” of racism in Brazil.

Racism in Brazil is very sophisticated and structured,” says David. “The racism here is not physical. It works on people psychologically.”

Neymar, whose http://www.neymarjr.net/neymar-son-david-lucca-da-silva-santos/" rel="nofollow - son looks very similar  to the grandson in The Redemption of Ham, seems to have had quite a different experience in the four years since saying that he wasn’t black. The star forward has been subjected to monkey noises made by his own teammates, had multiple bananas thrown at him during international matches and even confronted an opposing coach he thought called him a monkey during a game.

That harassment may have been at the heart of a campaign he started after fellow Brazilian team member http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/04/brazilian_soccer_player_dani_alves_epic_response_to_banana_thrown_at_him.html" rel="nofollow - Dani Alves had a banana thrown at him  by fans during a match in Spain. Rather than protest, Alves picked up the banana, peeled it and ate it, then continued playing. Later, Neymar posted http://www.insidespanishfootball.com/106047/neymar-were-all-monkeys/" rel="nofollow - a photo to Instagram  of himself and his son holding bananas with the slogan, “Somos todos macacos” (“We are all monkeys”).

The campaign took off in Brazil, with many of the country’s notable artists and personalities also tweeting photos of themselves with bananas. But many in the country protested the movement, citing it as a trivialization of a very serious problem in soccer and in society.

The comparison between blacks and monkeys is racist in its essence,” wrote Brazilian activist and history professor Douglas Belchior on his NegroBelchior blog. “However, many people don’t understand the seriousness of using the monkey as an offense, as an insult to black people.

This can be a particularly complex issue in a country full of people whom outsiders see as black but who don’t think of themselves as such. That divide is evidenced by growing monkey taunts of black players and officials in Brazil.

In March, Brazilian midfielder Marcos Arouca da Silva was called a monkey during a postgame interview, an event that he said wasn’t an isolated incident. Brazilian referee Marcio Chagas da Silva says he’s been subjected to more than 200 racially based attacks during his career refereeing matches in the country. During a recent game between Brazilian clubs Esportivo and Veranopolis, fans reportedly yelled at him from the stands, “You belong in a circus. Go back to the forest, you monkey.”

Such events are what led Rousseff, along with FIFA, to push for this year’s World Cup to become “a global marker against racism.” Before the start of the World Cup, Brazil’s soccer federation also commenced a campaign against racism that is less controversial than Neymar’s, called “Somos iguais,” or “We are equal.”

As the World Cup moves forward and more fans see their teams bounced from the tournament by teams led by star black players like Italy’s Mario Balotelli, Cameroon’s Samuel Eto’o, Belgium’s Vincent Kompany, France’s Paul Pogba and others, Brazil’s hopes for a global marker against racism may be tested.

https://twitter.com/DionRabouin" rel="nofollow -




Replies:
Posted By: iliveforbhm
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 7:55am
They got to go off this planet deep billions and trillions and quintillions of miles away from Earth. They are bad for us at every level for us.


Posted By: callmeDEva
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:22am
Interesting article. Although I understand the concept of black Mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc. on the surface, It still confuses me. Like I can't wrap my mind around it for some reason.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:46am
I found it strange at the faces Brazil was putting forward on their World Cup promos ..

I was like que? Now you want to acknowledge the blacks?


Posted By: carolina cutie
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:47am
I read part of it but I have to finish an assignment before I get to the rest.

It's always surprising to see that the racism is so deep in Brazil that you deny what you clearly see in the mirror.


Posted By: goodm3
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:55am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

I found it strange at the faces Brazil was putting forward on their World Cup promos ..

I was like que? Now you want to acknowledge the blacks?

Do you think its because its sports... 


Posted By: indiecat
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:59am
They don't even show the favelas on tv, there is a chance to raise awareness about racism in every aspect like in their own society and about why certain people have to endure it.

This picture got to me, even though his back his turned, he is probably black. You can't tell the world not to be racist when your own society is racist and full of obstacles preventing certain people from advancing. You can't be black only when you want to be.





Posted By: Cocoa
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:02am
^^Cry


Posted By: naturesgift
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:07am
O God! we need to support the protest of the people of Brazil all that money and none of its going to the people!


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:14am
Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:17am
Originally posted by goodm3 goodm3 wrote:

Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

I found it strange at the faces Brazil was putting forward on their World Cup promos ..

I was like que? Now you want to acknowledge the blacks?


Do you think its because its sports... 
it's because they want to sell an image


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:20am


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:24am
Brazil always tried to sell that racial democracy crap to the world whenever it dealt with big events that attracts tourists like Carnival, Soccer, Samba, etc. And some people buy it. A couple years ago I was staying Rocinha in Rio and I had an English roommate. He was like in Brazil it aint about race, its about class. 

And Im like Fool we in the biggest favela in South America, all these dark faces and u trying to tell me this got nothing to do with race. But when we roll to Ipanema and Leblon, it magically becomes much whiter. Its crazy but cuz the favelas got some white faces, people think everyone is equally poor. They are uneducated on racial politics down there big time. I had to put my ex on game cuz she had no clue what racism was really about.


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:27am
Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"


Posted By: indiecat
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.


I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"





Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"

Don't do it. Seriously. If you value your sanity... 
You don't seem like the type who would travel and only stay in resorts.
I might be exagerating a bit but they are the absolute worse in all of Latin America.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.


I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"
lol


Posted By: iliveforbhm
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:58am
I had a Dominican tell me she wasn't black nor African. I told I seen Spanish women in Spain with small beasts and flat asses. And I know the taino women ain't packing either. So where did it come from and same as those African drums. Quit lying.


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 10:37am
I can understand the term "Black" Being confusing. But when they say they have no African in them. That is the real perplexing topic.


Posted By: HaitianDiva64
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 10:38am
Well America helps push the idea that most Brazilian woman are tall skinny with a slight tan. Matter fact thats the image for most hispanics.

Please dont go to DR and fund that craziness


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 10:39am
I remember way back when, I was taking this class. And this DR dude had to introduce himself, the first thing that came out his mouth was.

"Hi everyone I'm not Black, my name is Edwin........."

Me: *nobody asked you niqqa


Posted By: indiecat
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 10:47am
Lmao!


Posted By: iliveforbhm
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 10:55am
My friend went through that with a guy from Honduras.


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:15am
Besides black identity, I'm really interested in Japanese Brazilians too. I had a cool Japanese Brazilian student when I lived in São Paulo and he touched on it a little how its a struggle between identifying with Japan but still being born Brazilian. And also the stereotypes that come with being Asian in Brazil. Imma hit him up soon.


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:16am
I didn't read the whole thing, I will later..
Neymar doesn't consider himself black.... he perms his hair, dies his hair and heard blonde... just sad..
 
Alot of black brazilians have ask him to stop "white washing" himself because of all the black kids that look up to him..
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=vxP3drz6gSh0tM&tbnid=1_HbywHoAH0MrM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackwomenofbrazil.co%2F2013%2F02%2F21%2Fneymars-blond-ambition-and-the-question-of-racism-identity-and-marketability-of-black-public-figures%2F&ei=62mgU-m3LsG7oQTj-IHoAg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGOfNnkSe-qKSUlhFQ9D-1oQsX1OQ&ust=1403108187275117" rel="nofollow">
 
Young Neymar....^^


Posted By: ThoughtCouture
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

I didn't read the whole thing, I will later..
Neymar doesn't consider himself black.... he perms his hair, dies his hair and heard blonde... just sad..
 
Alot of black brazilians have ask him to stop "white washing" himself because of all the black kids that look up to him..
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=vxP3drz6gSh0tM&tbnid=1_HbywHoAH0MrM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackwomenofbrazil.co%2F2013%2F02%2F21%2Fneymars-blond-ambition-and-the-question-of-racism-identity-and-marketability-of-black-public-figures%2F&ei=62mgU-m3LsG7oQTj-IHoAg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGOfNnkSe-qKSUlhFQ9D-1oQsX1OQ&ust=1403108187275117" rel="nofollow">
 
Young Neymar....^^
 
smh.  who is he?  how does he look now?


Posted By: Sang Froid
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:22am
He's in the pic in the OP.


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:23am
My moms would say he aint black lol, I know a few people who would say he mixed. So I just go by what they self identfy, if u aint with us then be gone.


Posted By: ThoughtCouture
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:23am
oh and he looks EXACTLY like my moms youngest brother when he was around that age...i actually had to do a f*ckin double take when i looked at the pic...


Posted By: ThoughtCouture
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Sang Froid Sang Froid wrote:

He's in the pic in the OP.
 
Shocked  omg.  wow!


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Besides black identity, I'm really interested in Japanese Brazilians too. I had a cool Japanese Brazilian student when I lived in São Paulo and he touched on it a little how its a struggle between identifying with Japan but still being born Brazilian. And also the stereotypes that come with being Asian in Brazil. Imma hit him up soon.


I'd love to hear more. Not familiar with this topic.


Posted By: ThoughtCouture
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

So I just go by what they self identfy, if u aint with us then be gone.
 
basically, this is how I feel.  if you wanna id as a unicorn...go right on af*ckin head...


Posted By: mizzsandra00
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"

I met a chick like this......black as Akon......4bzzzzz hair and she refuse to believe she was black......my yt teacher was like oh honey your blackLOLLOLLOL.....they yt was so funny.....color specialist.....all black client list and Hungarian gypsy.....I knew we would be good when she started talking about ACV and bentonite clay......LOL


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

My moms would say he aint black lol, I know a few people who would say he mixed. So I just go by what they self identfy, if u aint with us then be gone.


Young Neymar was preto....


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

My moms would say he aint black lol, I know a few people who would say he mixed. So I just go by what they self identfy, if u aint with us then be gone.


Young Neymar was preto....

I agree, but I know some black people who would disagree. Especially if they saw his son, they'd say a black man couldnt make a white baby like that LOL


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:38am
If there is racial harmony in Brazil, then why deny a racial label so frevently?


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:52am
its crazy but ive but living in jersey ive had to just come to terms with it accept they are not meant to know about their background.   but it makes me wonder what they teach them in there countries and families about slavery and race because ive come across way too many dark skinned latinos who have no idea they are of african decent and just think their skin color and hair is just something that sometimes happens to hispanicsStern Smile  and im not even going to mention the number of hispanics that believe their country of origin is their race.  its like an entire race of people just agreed never to talk about who they were and deleted themselves out of history.


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:55am
 
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:


I was buying something from Windsor and the cashier asked me who helped me

I said that black girl over there and pointed at the girl that helped me

the cashier (who was obviously BLACK) said, she's not black she's dominican and was kind of salty about it

well bitch just ring me the fcuk up.....you knew who I was talking about


LOL i pointed out a black girl to my colombian friend and she was like no mami she's not black she's just dark skinned.


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:00pm
They know their history and that they are black....It's just the stigma of being black what they want to run away from.
 
In Cuba you know that you are black ...


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

 
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:


I was buying something from Windsor and the cashier asked me who helped me

I said that black girl over there and pointed at the girl that helped me

the cashier (who was obviously BLACK) said, she's not black she's dominican and was kind of salty about it

well bitch just ring me the fcuk up.....you knew who I was talking about


LOL i pointed out a black girl to my colombian friend and she was like no mami she's not black she's just dark skinned.


lol

that happened to me in jersey by the way


of course it did.  ive never seen so many racially confused people as jersey.  i dont even tell the stories i know cuz it'll look like i have something against hispanics.


Posted By: iliveforbhm
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:01pm
Some think Santaria is Spanish lmfao and white people trying to make shango and oshun white now.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:03pm
im so black african i bleed ululations


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:05pm
Denying Blackness is so counterproductive

Most of these people are too slow to realize that if they embraced Blackness that they could flip their reality on it's side


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:07pm
I was in a Mexican bakery store buying some morning bread.. The old lady asked me what I was ... I responded "soy negra" (i'm black)... She was like no no mejia you are not black and we went back and forth ... Pinch
I always respond to latinos that I am black because I am andddddddd they get a little bit too comfortable and want to talk about "other blacks" around me and that is a no go..


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Alias_Avi Alias_Avi wrote:

Denying Blackness is so counterproductive

Most of these people are too slow to realize that if they embraced Blackness that they could flip their reality on it's side


Like I said, denying blackness depending on the reason can be justified.


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

They know their history and that they are black....It's just the stigma of being black what they want to run away from.
 
In Cuba you know that you are black ...


not a lot cubans in these parks so i cant speak on it. 

i was in a black psych class in college and this girl who was puerto rican and dark skinned starting talking about why she was taking the class.  and a white guy interrupted her and said arent you black? and she said no.  she explained that she was from PR and he said yeah but youre black and she was like no.  so he asked her how does she look the way she does and she said well maybe one of her ancestors way, way, back may have been black.LOL this girl is dark skin

these are the types of stories i hear all the time. i have a friend from PR and it took me 11 years to get her to just say she's black...but still puerto ricanLOL


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:12pm
Even when it's "justified" it's still counterproductive

Let's say everyone who's ever been called Black just embraces it, or at least doesn't make a big deal of it... it would completely take the sting out of supposedly being an insult


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:


They know their history and that they are black....It's just the stigma of being black what they want to run away from.
 
In Cuba you know that you are black ...


not a lot cubans in these parks so i cant speak on it. 

i was in a black psych class in college and this girl who was puerto rican and dark skinned starting talking about why she was taking the class.  and a white guy interrupted her and said arent you black? and she said no.  she explained that she was from PR and he said yeah but youre black and she was like no.  so he asked her how does she look the way she does and she said well maybe one of her ancestors way, way, back may have been black.LOL this girl is dark skin

these are the types of stories i hear all the time. i have a friend from PR and it took me 11 years to get her to just say she's black...but still puerto ricanLOL


Idk something about a white person telling me who or what I am. Would take me over the edge.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by Alias_Avi Alias_Avi wrote:

Denying Blackness is so counterproductive

Most of these people are too slow to realize that if they embraced Blackness that they could flip their reality on it's side


Like I said, denying blackness depending on the reason can be justified.


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:


They know their history and that they are black....It's just the stigma of being black what they want to run away from.
 
In Cuba you know that you are black ...


not a lot cubans in these parks so i cant speak on it. 

i was in a black psych class in college and this girl who was puerto rican and dark skinned starting talking about why she was taking the class.  and a white guy interrupted her and said arent you black? and she said no.  she explained that she was from PR and he said yeah but youre black and she was like no.  so he asked her how does she look the way she does and she said well maybe one of her ancestors way, way, back may have been black.LOL this girl is dark skin

these are the types of stories i hear all the time. i have a friend from PR and it took me 11 years to get her to just say she's black...but still puerto ricanLOL


Idk something about a white person telling me who or what I am. Would take me over the edge.


he was the only white guy in the class too.  i think the most of the black in the class including the professor didnt even want to challenge her cuz we thought she might crackLOL


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Alias_Avi Alias_Avi wrote:

Even when it's "justified" it's still counterproductive

Let's say everyone who's ever been called Black just embraces it, or at least doesn't make a big deal of it... it would completely take the sting out of supposedly being an insult


You're speaking with an AA biased mindset. I didn't identify as black when growing up. Not because of anything negative, but because that term was not used around me when growing up. You don't understand so I won't try to expect you to.


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:18pm
i can understand it denying blackness with light hispanics who are clearly mixed because they may have been mixed for generations and have no black face to point to in there family tree.  i get that and i dont even refer to them as black.  im talking about these folks who are visibly unmistakably black.


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by Alias_Avi Alias_Avi wrote:

Denying Blackness is so counterproductive

Most of these people are too slow to realize that if they embraced Blackness that they could flip their reality on it's side


Like I said, denying blackness depending on the reason can be justified.


In certain contexts yes. My parents never called me black nor anybody around us. They just said, "This person is from this state or from that state" or " this person is from this ethnic group". I was really sheltered btw and black wasn't a term used around me. It just wasn't. Call me a liar or whatever but this was my experience.

We identified Black being= AA. And we didn't consider ourselves AA.


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:19pm
Also... hear me out ...LOL
 
It's hard to come to another country and have someone tell you WHAT you are...You are born Columbian , raised Columbian and come to the US and now you are black y nada mas ... there is nothing wrong with being black but what about their Columbian identity.... that is alot of Afro Latinos struggle imo and some are just straight coons too...


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

i can understand it denying blackness with light hispanics who are clearly mixed because they may have been mixed for generations and have no black face to point to in there family tree.  i get that and i dont even refer to them as black.  im talking about these folks who are visibly unmistakably black.


When a Hispanic says their not black it's different from when an African says they are not black.

Hispanics deny there African heritage, Africans deny being AA. There is a difference.


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:20pm
Don't take it personal

I am speaking in regards to countries where that label is used (of the Diaspora mainly)

There are many countries where plenty people of African descent do not identify with the label "Black" and I still find it counterproductive (and not in an American way)


Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by Alias_Avi Alias_Avi wrote:

Even when it's "justified" it's still counterproductive

Let's say everyone who's ever been called Black just embraces it, or at least doesn't make a big deal of it... it would completely take the sting out of supposedly being an insult


You're speaking with an AA biased mindset. I didn't identify as black when growing up. Not because of anything negative, but because that term was not used around me when growing up. You don't understand so I won't try to expect you to.


Posted By: goodm3
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"

pretty much... 

someone was trying to explain to my friend while i was there that it had something to do with the Haitians...but the explanation was so long and drawn out I just started to gaze at the scenery. 


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:


where is your family from f8?


Watts


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

i can understand it denying blackness with light hispanics who are clearly mixed because they may have been mixed for generations and have no black face to point to in there family tree.  i get that and i dont even refer to them as black.  im talking about these folks who are visibly unmistakably black.


When a Hispanic says their not black it's different from when an African says they are not black.

Hispanics deny there African heritage, Africans deny being AA. There is a difference.


im talking about people denying their african heritage not claiming AA.


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:22pm
And I wasn't talking about coming to America and being called "Black"


I'm talking about being called Black (or your country's version of that word) IN your own country


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

i can understand it denying blackness with light hispanics who are clearly mixed because they may have been mixed for generations and have no black face to point to in there family tree.  i get that and i dont even refer to them as black.  im talking about these folks who are visibly unmistakably black.


When a Hispanic says their not black it's different from when an African says they are not black.

Hispanics deny there African heritage, Africans deny being AA. There is a difference.


im talking about people denying their african heritage not claiming AA.


I know, I was speaking in general. Many people feel that these are same thing.


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:23pm
This

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

i can understand it denying blackness with light hispanics who are clearly mixed because they may have been mixed for generations and have no black face to point to in there family tree.  i get that and i dont even refer to them as black.  im talking about these folks who are visibly unmistakably black.


When a Hispanic says their not black it's different from when an African says they are not black.

Hispanics deny there African heritage, Africans deny being AA. There is a difference.


im talking about people denying their african heritage not claiming AA.


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by goodm3 goodm3 wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"

pretty much... 

someone was trying to explain to my friend while i was there that it had something to do with the Haitians...but the explanation was so long and drawn out I just started to gaze at the scenery. 

I'm not too familiar with the history between DR and Haiti but I read something about there being a massacre of Haitians in DR and even dark skinned dominicans getting caught up in it. Since then dark skinned dominicans like "I no black papi"


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:26pm
@samone you're not in the south any more?


Posted By: iliveforbhm
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:28pm
Are you African descent is the question. You deny being African descent but you lose everything.


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:29pm
im sure after a certain agin you certainly become aware of blackness and colour


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:

Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

@samone you're not in the south any more?


yeah I am

I consider my state to be a southern state even though jr does not lol


LOL what Florida?


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:30pm
Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

im sure after a certain agin you certainly become aware of blackness and colour


Yep, it took a while for me to stop bubbling in other on standardized test.


I'm black and dignified


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


i know this topic must annoy the hell out of you every time it comes up but you  know we're only talking about the one who dont claim it.  and you know this topic wont go away cuz were *&%^$#@Eed upLOL


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:


MD


You're not from the south


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


meh that's fine

if black means AA to them then I can see why they don't claim it

I only claim AA, because well I am AA


see the problem i always seem to get stuck with is that people keep trying to convince me that their countries dont see color.  its like people come to america and all of sudden no racial divide occurs in their country.


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


i know this topic must annoy the hell out of you every time it comes up but you  know we're only talking about the one who dont claim it.  and you know this topic wont go away cuz were *&%^$#@Eed upLOL
 
Yeah....LOL
 
I just see both sides of the issue and want everyone to know we ain't all like that...LOL


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:39pm
MD is a little southern and a little northern imo, same with DC....VA is the south


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by goodm3 goodm3 wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.


I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"


pretty much... 

someone was trying to explain to my friend while i was there that it had something to do with the Haitians...but the explanation was so long and drawn out I just started to gaze at the scenery. 


I'm not too familiar with the history between DR and Haiti but I read something about there being a massacre of Haitians in DR and even dark skinned dominicans getting caught up in it. Since then dark skinned dominicans like "I no black papi"


That is correct, except for the "since then" part. They have had a hatred of anything remotely black/African throughout their history, way before The parsley massacre. When Haiti became independent, there was very legitimate worry that the Europeans would come back and bring back slavery by going through the DR. So Haiti invaded the Dr for a period of 22 years and abolished slavery on that part of the island. For the disenfranchised, that was actually a good move. Some non-indoctrinated Dominicans recognize that Haiti was instrumental in getting rid of slavery (it was still there, even though Dominicans will claim that they had completely transitioned to a ranch/cattle type economy instead of a plantation economy (they tend to do a certain amount of slavery denial, too). This is where the hatred of Haitians come from. The whites at the time were salty as hell about it and didn't accept that black people would occupy them. Coupled with that the visceral hatred and disdain with anything related to Africa and a self-hating half Haitian dictator (ironically) who ordered the Parsley massacre in the first place and tried to whiten the race, and there you go.

I need to read up on Brazil. I have some knowledge but not enough.


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


i know this topic must annoy the hell out of you every time it comes up but you  know we're only talking about the one who dont claim it.  and you know this topic wont go away cuz were *&%^$#@Eed upLOL
 
Yeah....LOL
 
I just see both sides of the issue and want everyone to know we ain't all like that...LOL


you wouldnt be here if you were.

you wanna talk about all the AA i know who dont think theyre black.  its sad and funny at the same damn time.LOL


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by tatee tatee wrote:

Originally posted by SamoneLenior SamoneLenior wrote:

Originally posted by Rumbera Rumbera wrote:

Some latinos will claim there African heritage but don't want to be called black.


meh that's fine

if black means AA to them then I can see why they don't claim it

I only claim AA, because well I am AA


see the problem i always seem to get stuck with is that people keep trying to convince me that their countries dont see color.  its like people come to america and all of sudden no racial divide occurs in their country.
 
There is no Latin America country that doesn't see color...Cubans will try to sale you that ish but there is blatant in your face racism in Cuba... It's the same song


Posted By: Marcelo22
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by goodm3 goodm3 wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.


I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"


pretty much... 

someone was trying to explain to my friend while i was there that it had something to do with the Haitians...but the explanation was so long and drawn out I just started to gaze at the scenery. 


I'm not too familiar with the history between DR and Haiti but I read something about there being a massacre of Haitians in DR and even dark skinned dominicans getting caught up in it. Since then dark skinned dominicans like "I no black papi"


That is correct, except for the "since then" part. They have had a hatred of anything remotely black/African throughout their history, way before The parsley massacre. When Haiti became independent, there was very legitimate worry that the Europeans would come back and bring back slavery by going through the DR. So Haiti invaded the Dr for a period of 22 years and abolished slavery on that part of the island. For the disenfranchised, that was actually a good move. Some non-indoctrinated Dominicans recognize that Haiti was instrumental in getting rid of slavery (it was still there, even though Dominicans will claim that they had completely transitioned to a ranch/cattle type economy instead of a plantation economy (they tend to do a certain amount of slavery denial, too). This is where the hatred of Haitians come from. The whites at the time were salty as hell about it and didn't accept that black people would occupy them. Coupled with that the visceral hatred and disdain with anything related to Africa and a self-hating half Haitian dictator (ironically) who ordered the Parsley massacre in the first place and tried to whiten the race, and there you go.

I need to read up on Brazil. I have some knowledge but not enough.

Damn. Props on the summary. I'll read more on this.


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:46pm


Posted By: femmemichelle
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:58pm
I was about to come in here mad as hell yall were claiming Neymar as black but after seeing his childhood pictures.....that nicca is black. 


Posted By: tatee
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by femmemichelle femmemichelle wrote:

I was about to come in here mad as hell yall were claiming Neymar as black but after seeing his childhood pictures.....that nicca is black. 


you let a box relaxer fool youLOL


Posted By: Ds2nice
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 12:59pm
I got into a huge debate with a Haitian friend that refuses to acknowledge that he's black/African decent because he has a brown paper bag complexion.  To add more insult to injury, he actually says he's fair skin.  However when a "black" opportunity pops up, he wants to jump on the black bandwagon.  SMH.
 
You have to realize that you can't teach or save everyone.  Some people are just too deep in their own stupidity or ignorance to know any better. 
 
 


Posted By: Rumbera
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:00pm
LOL


Posted By: HaitianDiva64
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:01pm
Dominicans celebrate their independance drom Haitians, not Spain.

The hate for haitians in that country is sooo real. I've heard first account horror stories and dominicans my age 24 just laughing at the vile things done


Posted By: HaitianDiva64
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Ds2nice Ds2nice wrote:


I got into a huge debate with a Haitian friend that refuses to acknowledge that he's black/African decent because he has a brown paper bag complexion.  To add more insult to injury, he actually says he's fair skin.  However when a "black" opportunity pops up, he wants to jump on the black bandwagon.  SMH.
 
You have to realize that you can't teach or save everyone.  Some people are just too deep in their own stupidity or ignorance to know any better. 
 
 


Yup, I hate haitians like this. Quick to shout out any dominicn or french in them but want to be down in private or when the money comes in.

I want to ask these latinos what is black to them? What does it meaan to them


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:04pm
Ain't that some sh*t?!? LOL

Ds2nice is right, some people are too far gone
The culture of self-hatred is too deep in Dominican culture to save it

Originally posted by HaitianDiva64 HaitianDiva64 wrote:

Dominicans celebrate their independance drom Haitians, not Spain.

The hate for haitians in that country is sooo real. I've heard first account horror stories and dominicans my age 24 just laughing at the vile things done


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Ds2nice Ds2nice wrote:


I got into a huge debate with a Haitian friend that refuses to acknowledge that he's black/African decent because he has a brown paper bag complexion.  To add more insult to injury, he actually says he's fair skin.  However when a "black" opportunity pops up, he wants to jump on the black bandwagon.  SMH.
 
You have to realize that you can't teach or save everyone.  Some people are just too deep in their own stupidity or ignorance to know any better. 
 
 


I've met the type. There is a mulatto elite in Haiti that has had a stronghold on the economy (although they have been challenged a great deal throughout history, not all of them are mulatto) but lost control of the political sphere. Some of these people (not all) are basically light-skinned blacks that intermarried for generations (kind of like the Creoles in the U.S.). The ones who hold that mentality are seriously messed up in the brain.


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by HaitianDiva64 HaitianDiva64 wrote:

Originally posted by Ds2nice Ds2nice wrote:


I got into a huge debate with a Haitian friend that refuses to acknowledge that he's black/African decent because he has a brown paper bag complexion.  To add more insult to injury, he actually says he's fair skin.  However when a "black" opportunity pops up, he wants to jump on the black bandwagon.  SMH.
 
You have to realize that you can't teach or save everyone.  Some people are just too deep in their own stupidity or ignorance to know any better. 
 
 


Yup, I hate haitians like this. Quick to shout out any dominicn or french in them but want to be down in private or when the money comes in.

I want to ask these latinos what is black to them? What does it meaan to them


Girl, I have stories...


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 1:15pm
But coming back to Brazil, I think they have more of a black consciousness, especially in recent years, decade. They have been pushing for rights. Rummie and Marcelo probably know more about that.


Posted By: Lilaca
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

I hope the muscles surrounding his lungs cease to function during his sleepAngry


Posted By: Lilaca
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by mizzsandra00 mizzsandra00 wrote:

Originally posted by Marcelo22 Marcelo22 wrote:

Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

Not surprised as this is a problem throughout Latin America but compared to those messed up Dominicans, afro-Brazilians are like Eldgridge Cleaver, lol.

I really wanna check out the DR soon cuz I hear this a lot, folks as dark as Akon talking about "I no black papi"

I met a chick like this......black as Akon......4bzzzzz hair and she refuse to believe she was black......my yt teacher was like oh honey your blackLOLLOLLOL.....they yt was so funny.....color specialist.....all black client list and Hungarian gypsy.....I knew we would be good when she started talking about ACV and bentonite clay......LOL
Dead @ How Akon is used to describe a type of dark black. You can still be blackety black black and have mixed ancestry.... Dead



Posted By: sexyandfamous
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 4:43pm
Are you guys aware that now in Brazil whites are the majority of the populationQuestion
91 million Brazilians stated they are white in the 2010 census. In Brazil there's no "one drop rule" that makes one person black if any of their ancestors is black; if they look white, they are white.

Only 15 million said they are black.....



Posted By: sexyandfamous
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by JoliePoufiasse JoliePoufiasse wrote:

But coming back to Brazil, I think they have more of a black consciousness, especially in recent years, decade. They have been pushing for rights. Rummie and Marcelo probably know more about that.




looooooooooooooooooool what rights????


eta: are you guys also aware that in Rio de Janeiro, which has a pretty big black population, black teens are forbidden to go to the mall? it is called "rolezinho" which means kinda like "hanging out".
We all know that teens love to go to the mall just 'cause, and in Brazil is the same, but since there were too many black teens going in groups to the mall, the merchants got scared and with that they forbid this kind of activity - but is not a problem if the kids are white and/or are wearing uniform from private school (which means they have money).



(cops harrassing poor teens - Sao Paulo)


(do you guys notice the cop chose the only black nearby to hit?)


Posted By: sexyandfamous
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 4:58pm
^^^^so now those kids are fighting back and making HUGE rolezinhos, which invites hundreds of people to malls to make a point, which leads to fights with cops, arrests, plus it makes society more angry at them, because they are seem as the problem.


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 8:13pm
^^Yes I heard about that. But it was my understanding that an affirmative action program for university admission has finally been instituted and that it took some pushing for this to occur. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying they are not oppressed. they clearly are. But there seems(?) to be more of an afro-consciousness movement over there? As if they are waking up? I've seen documentaries on this. I couldn't tell you for sure as I don't know Brazil like that but that was my impression. I don't get the sense that they are as much in denial? Maybe I'm wrong. I'm comparing to what I know of the DR, I guess...


Posted By: sexyandfamous
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:14pm
@JP - University admission recently instituted? Oh no, that exists for over 10 years, it translates to quotes, lol, but it is called Cotas, and blacks have somewhat a priority, and so do Native Brazilians and disabled people.

Basically when they take the college test (kinda of SAT), there is some space reserved for them, and when it first came out, many people were furious because they said that if their kid got an 8 and a black kid got a 7 and got in, it was wrong and blablabla.

It is still around, and I bet a lot of whites who don't look black at all but their grandmother was black do use the cotas in order to have higher chance to get in universities.


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by sexyandfamous sexyandfamous wrote:

@JP - University admission recently instituted? Oh no, that exists for over 10 years, it translates to quotes, lol, but it is called Cotas, and blacks have somewhat a priority, and so do Native Brazilians and disabled people.

Basically when they take the college test (kinda of SAT), there is some space reserved for them, and when it first came out, many people were furious because they said that if their kid got an 8 and a black kid got a 7 and got in, it was wrong and blablabla.

It is still around, and I bet a lot of whites who don't look black at all but their grandmother was black do use the cotas in order to have higher chance to get in universities.


10 years is recent in my book. But the point I'm making is that affirmative action of this nature would not have been instituted if afro brazilians hadn't pushed for it. That's what I mean by increased black consciousness. Prior to that, it was unthinkable. That's progress.  They had ZERO options before. Is there anything of the kind in any other latin american country? Could be but none that I'm aware of. I do know that there are people who  misuse the quota system for their own gain though but the concept of affirmative action has never been perfect anyway. It's a start, don't you think? To me, it looks like the beginnings of some type of black social consciousness amongst afro-brazilians


Posted By: JoliePoufiasse
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 9:36pm
Even culturally, there seems to be some type of black renaissance amongst afro-brazilians. They'll have organizations that include the word Afro. It's not a dirty word to them anynore like it is in a place like the DR (from the documentaries I've seen, lol). I don't have a thorough understanding of Brazil but it seems to me like they have become more conscious. Doesn't mean they're still not at the bottom of society because at the end of the day, it's white supremacy at work. But they're starting to challenge it and that's a good sign.

Just the other day, there was a piece on French tv about black associations in the favelas. It was very interesting.



Posted By: sexyandfamous
Date Posted: Jun 17 2014 at 11:11pm
Yes @black consciousness; that's probably one of the reasons why the youngsters are fighting back about this prohibition of circulating at the malls, because they wants to make a point - but sadly a lot of people with no good intentions infiltrates in the group and starts sh!t or the police harasses them.


Posted By: Alias_Avi
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 12:04am
Brazil most definitely has a growing population of Black conscious sistahs (and brothas)

Funny how one of my fav Brazilian blogs to visit wrote an article about what I just noticed today

Originally posted by <font color='#0000FF'>http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/06/15/world-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway/ rel=nofollow</font> - Black Women of Brazil http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/06/15/world-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway/ rel=nofollow - Black Women of Brazil wrote:

]

World Cup: Although Brazil’s team has many black stars, the fans in the stands are whiter than Norway


http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=eC1moIg4FGWD0M&tbnid=By0hnEP3PVpZHM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxsports.com.au%2Ffootball%2Fsocceroos%2Faussies-clamour-for-brazil-world-cup-tickets-which-have-gone-on-sale%2Fstory-e6frf4l3-1226701138114&ei=whqhU4zVLZKcyAT_vYGQDQ&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGBPCWpzEDb6gJ1yOcnwoqoiWi10g&ust=1403153470168727" rel="nofollow">

Brazilian fans at opening match of 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil Group A game

Note from BW of Brazil: So by now everyone knows that the long anticipated 2014 World Cup in Brazil has begun with the host team opening with a convincing 3-1 victory over Croatia in the Itaquerão stadium in São Paulo. As was also anticipated, http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/06/12/neymar-and-racism-a-tragedy-in-four-acts/" rel="nofollow - superstar Neymar’s star shined even brighter as he marked two of the home team’s goals and entered the top ten list of all-time Brazilian scorers for the seleção, Brazil’s National Team. Also in typical fashion, Brazilians presented another example of the racism that everyone wants to deny but that remains part of the national character. Although the score may have been 3-1 in favor of the home team, in reality, the Brazilians scored all four goals in the game if one counts the own goal accidentally scored by Marcelo. Consistent with beliefs that only blacks make mistakes because of their race, http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/06/13/it-had-to-be-a-black-brazilians-use-racist-insults-after-players-error-in-opening-world-cup-match/" rel="nofollow - Brazilians took to Twitter and blasted the preto (black) Marcelo for his error . 

An image that was even more evident of how race works in Brazil were the various shots of the crowd in Itaquerão. Sure, over the past decade or so, http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/?s=quotas+affirmative+action" rel="nofollow - policies have attempted to diversify more areas of a Brazilian society dominated by the presence of http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/?s=whiteness" rel="nofollow - persons who look as if their racial origins are purely European . As the excitement for the game reached a peak, the overwhelming whiteness of the crowd was hard to miss. http://entretenimento.r7.com/blogs/andre-barcinski/na-copa-roubada-num-estadio-roubado-uma-vitoria-roubada-20140612/" rel="nofollow - As André Barcinski put it :

“If racial and cultural integration of Brazil was the main theme of the opening party, this was not reflected in the stands. The stadium was whiter than Norway. Finding a black person among the spectators was a difficult task.”

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=aZwysxbxLEFgnM&tbnid=ialPcuGJUih0eM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.101greatgoals.com%2Fblog%2Ftwo-of-the-three-doves-met-their-maker-after-being-released-during-the-opening-ceremony%2F&ei=AhuhU4SUK460yASuk4LIBg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHw-O1-KVS94R1d4fEtgHDW6iNXtA&ust=1403153507231666" rel="nofollow">

Children release doves into the air

Minutes before the game started, three children, one black, one white, one Indian, representing the origins of the Brazilian people, entered the field to release doves into the air, but one was hard pressed to find such diversity in the stands. In reality, this shouldn’t come as a surprise as in July of 2013 we covered the http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/07/07/apartheid-looms-in-brazils-soccer-stadiums-as-critics-make-note-of-the-whiteness-of-fans-in-stadiums/" rel="nofollow - same issue at the Confederations Cup, also held in Brazil  as well as in the http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/05/02/surprise-surprise-brazils-top-tv-network-presents-the-country-as-nearly-all-white-in-world-cup-commercial/" rel="nofollow - official World Cup commercial  and the http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/12/01/is-it-just-because-im-white-asks-model-after-controversial-rejection-of-black-couple-for-white-couple-in-world-cup-event-black-brazilians-and-director-spike-lee-voice-outrage/" rel="nofollow - controversy behind the selection of the World Cup Final Draw couple . In the end, one could argue that the camera did show the pride of the Brazilian people,well,  at least the European part. 

Black players, white spectators

The relationship between racial tensions (or strains) and futebol in Brazil is extensive

by Antonio Jiménez Barca with Leonardo Sakamoto

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=UI3SvwZmju0LuM&tbnid=qwMaVst6Y0EYbM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fworld-cup%2F10499048%2FWorld-Cup-2014-team-by-team-guide.html&ei=RhuhU7KOA9GVyATvooDgCg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGBPCWpzEDb6gJ1yOcnwoqoiWi10g&ust=1403153470168727" rel="nofollow">

In 1914, a mulatto player of the elitist futebol club Fluminense, from Rio de Janeiro, http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/11/28/brazilian-novela-lado-a-lado-wins-emmy-award-series-portrayed-the-situation-of-blacks-after-the-abolition-of-slavery/" rel="nofollow - to mask the color of his skin, smeared his face with pó de arroz meaning rice powder . In the beginning it was okay. But when he began to sweat, his trick was discovered. The player was forever marked as Pó de Arroz, as well as the club itself. The relationship between racial tensions (or strains) and futebol in Brazil is extensive.

Indeed, many historians and experts who argue that football served precisely to unite the different races that inhabit this country-continent, which is one of the few things we all do together, rich and poor, white and black, or that everyone watches together. And the seleção (meaning selection or National Team) would be the high point of this feeling of brotherhood over colors. Yes, but there are also those who say that in http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/02/02/after-decades-of-racist-stereotypes-questioning-their-ability-black-goalies-in-brazilian-soccer-jumps-18-5-in-eight-years/" rel="nofollow - 1950, the goalie Barbosa, being black, was unfairly blamed for taking the definitive Ghiggia goal in the unfortunate Maracanazo. If he were white, he would have been forgiven. In the video on YouTube, we can prove that the action of Barbosa was neither a huge mistake, nor can even be categorized as an error. But tell that to the poor goalie who carried throughout life, until his death in 2000, the immense guilt of having served as an instrumental of disgrace. Even in the supermarkets he was pointed out with the finger: “Look, daughter, the man who made Brazil cry,” once said the mother to her daughter in the presence of the afflicted Barbosa.

Pelé, Garrincha and other redeemed their race and turned the Brazilian team in a mestiço (mixed race) and perfect machine capable of fabricating the best futebol in history. Since then, the seleção of Brazil was a faithful radiography of the society where http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/09/02/according-to-data-brazils-black-population-has-surpassed-100-million-as-a-whole-brazil-has-passed-the-200-million-mark/" rel="nofollow - over half the population is negro or mulatto .

And so it was more or less the team that entered Thursday in the Itaquerão stadium and defeated Croatia thanks to Neymar and a referee armed with the spray of a graffiti artist.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=FcFawzp3TaI51M&tbnid=ubhwE9YXc5ptJM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatsgoodonline.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fworld-cup-2014-opening-ceremony-j-lo-pitball-perform%2F&ei=PByhU63eEoSbyASpq4HgCg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNEU-IXN_qE1_bmKINDu3nvJ_t9f9A&ust=1403153696313095" rel="nofollow">

Fans at opening of World Cup

However, the stands were filled with thousands and thousands of white Brazilians, almost all white, the ones who, in their majority, have money in this country to pay admission, the ones that in general in this country, go to the movies, theater, exhibitions or to the best restaurants, those that dominate the best opportunities…

https://gatasnegrasbrasileiras.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/selecao.jpg" rel="nofollow">Six players on the Brazilian seleção: Dani Alves, Hulk, Thiago Silva, Luiz Gustavo Dias, Ramires and Marcelo
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=TYuGJFKh1c1NwM&tbnid=A7K1ZSA8BHSTnM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackwomenofbrazil.co%2F2014%2F06%2F15%2Fworld-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway%2F&ei=Xx2hU4qhGI2SyATgzYHoCg&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGMn-SJK0wAm5N3otchHyyugMnSpA&ust=1403154141179706" rel="nofollow">

On the field it was easy: Marcelo, Daniel Alves, Thiago Silva, Hulk, Ramires….But look at the photos of the match and try to find a black person among the public of the stadium, dressed in yellow, cheering with elation for their seleção. Try to find some black who was not watching everyone’s seleção on television, from the outside.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=TYuGJFKh1c1NwM&tbnid=NYdm0_m6shAZ_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackwomenofbrazil.co%2F2014%2F06%2F15%2Fworld-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway%2F&ei=gh2hU_ftKYuKyATepoHgDA&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHnzlLtxb_f1PMbg-Oq7CHeWmlcuQ&ust=1403154176446982" rel="nofollow">

The large television known as the telão in São Paulo attracts a much more diverse crowd

Note from BW of Brazil: Along these lines, the same sentiments were expressed by blogger Leonardo Sakamoto who notes that the images of the audiences in these games that are being transmitted around the world are not the face of the fans of the regular season games seen throughout the year. Those fans, most of whom simply couldn’t afford tickets, were be found in bars or in front of movie theater-sized public televisions around the country. 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=TYuGJFKh1c1NwM&tbnid=h-iduyd5mzanHM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackwomenofbrazil.co%2F2014%2F06%2F15%2Fworld-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway%2F&ei=oh2hU4O1BNCcyASu2oLYDw&bvm=bv.69137298,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHnzlLtxb_f1PMbg-Oq7CHeWmlcuQ&ust=1403154176446982" rel="nofollow">

Those accustomed to going to series A and B Brazilian championship games…with squadrons of Brazilians and Bolivians may find it strange when viewing the almost monochrome bleachers in the World Cup.

Please do not get me wrong. Everyone is entitled to have fun.

But as we have more rich whites than rich blacks here (a totally random fact since they “ http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/11/18/brazils-top-tv-network-makes-a-mockery-the-month-of-black-consciousness-in-a-satirical-skit/" rel="nofollow - are not racist” ) one might expect that this happen. Moreover, considering the stabbing that buying a ticket directly with FIFA or via the sacred institution of the peddler could be.

Listening to the radio, the announcer stated: “Look how wonderful! It’s the Brazilian family returning to the stadiums.” In fact, a specific type of family: that of a margarine commercial. For the World Cup games are a time in which the space-time fabric is torn and everything attains faces of a parallel universe – irrigated to a lot of public money and heavy actions to keep the “dangerous classes”’ away. When in doubt, bomb them.

http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2014/06/15/world-cup-although-brazils-team-has-many-black-stars-the-fans-in-the-stands-are-whiter-than-norway/" rel="nofollow">

Fans watching World Cup match on large television

Particularly I think the most nefarious immediate consequence of the presence of spectators who don’t regularly frequent the stadiums is that it doesn’t push the team as needed.

Just affirming that, in the stadium, was not the “Brazilian fans.” Not by far! The fans that come rain or shine, win or lose, is there supporting his team, live, however mediocre it is. These people, which helps our futebol to be what it is, deserve to be better represented in the Itaquerão stands.

Source:  http://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2014/06/13/opinion/1402680326_067689.html" rel="nofollow - El País Brasil , http://entretenimento.r7.com/blogs/andre-barcinski/na-copa-roubada-num-estadio-roubado-uma-vitoria-roubada-20140612/" rel="nofollow - R7 , http://blogdosakamoto.blogosfera.uol.com.br/2014/06/13/aquela-em-itaquera-nao-era-a-torcida-brasileira-nem-de-longe/" rel="nofollow - Blog do Sakamoto





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