Print Page | Close Window

The Whole Scientific Truth about TriETHANOLamine

Printed From: Black Hair Media Forum
Category: Natural Hair Care
Forum Name: Natural Hair Care
Forum Description: General Discussions on Natural Hair Care
URL: http://Forum.BlackHairMedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=369616
Printed Date: Dec 15 2017 at 11:12am


Topic: The Whole Scientific Truth about TriETHANOLamine
Posted By: pinkecube
Subject: The Whole Scientific Truth about TriETHANOLamine
Date Posted: Mar 31 2014 at 12:49am
Why you may want avoid TEA in your water based hair products, depending on your individual hair's type's vulnerabilities and sensitivities:

Hi, everyone. I have previously posted my previous negative experiences on amazon with ecostyler gel causing me baldspots, due to my protien sensitivity, in my low porosity type 4 hair. While I was in search of products to use as a replacement, I ran across Wet line gel, which claimed to be alcohol free, and moisturizing. Many People recommened it as a protein free gel. After i still experienced continuous thinning and immediately quit the product. I was aware my hair hated proteins, due to the brittle crunchy feeling I got when I used them. Wet line didn't contain hydrolyzed wheat protein. And something wasn’t right. From the beginning, my hair was thinning and I wasn’t seeing hair coming out, just like with the Ecostyler gel.

it took me a very long time to notice what was in this product that was directly agitating what I assumed to be my protein sensitivity, since they marketed themselves as protein free and alcohol free. I had the gut feeling it was triethanolamine, which was proven to be an irritant, but was unable to find specific testimony, so I was more or less speculating maybe it had something to do with the alkaline ph at the time.

So I recently looked at the chemical structure of triethanolamine and did some thorough research. I discovered a few shocking things about the ingredients in this product, and how they work together: triethanolamine and polyacrylate acid.  I will order my points from bad to worse.

WE ALREADY KNOW:

http://carcinogens-and-toxic-chemicals.blogspot.com/2012/11/triethanolamine-toxic-chemical-in.html" rel="nofollow - http://carcinogens-and-toxic-chemicals.blogspot.com/2012/11/triethanolamine-toxic-chemical-in.html

http://ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/706639/TRIETHANOLAMINE/" rel="nofollow - http://ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/706639/TRIETHANOLAMINE/

We are told this is a moderate irritant, and has been shown to be a human skin toxin or allergent, and expected to cause non-reproductive organ toxicity, and has been linked to cancer. These have all been brushed off as moderate concerns though.


FIRST:

Triethanolamine is a surficant. Yes it is a water soluble surficant. So are proteins, and some watersoluable silicones. Proteins in gel act as water soluble surficants. Coconut oil is a water soluable surficant. They all still latch on to the hair and plasticize it, and in many cases work against moisture as they are not moisturizers, but plasticizing emollients and moisturizing agents that need to work in conjunction with water in order to be effective in hydration.  But you are still leaving this on your hair for a substantial amount of time, and depending on your hair type and sensitivities, Use Caution.


SECOND:

Now, look at the word, triETHANOLamine. Ethanol.

Ethanol is a drying alcohol. If any of you are reporting dryness and brittleness, this is what is affecting you, it isn't random.

"Ethanolamine is an organic compound that is naturally found in coconut oil and is a primary amine and primary alcohol"
http://EzineArticles.com/6884068" rel="nofollow - http://EzineArticles.com/6884068

"As I explained last week in The 5 Most Common Mistakes Even Skin Experts Make, it is well-established that ethanol can reduce water content via a form of water loss known as transepidermal water loss (TEWL) (1), lipid content via extraction and dissolution (2), and protein content via denaturation (3). These properties allow for ethanol to be an effective (and drying) penetration enhancer."

"Ethanol in itself isn’t harmful. It’s the DRYING effect that can lead to other problems."
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/04/19/is-ethanol-in-skin-care-products-safe/" rel="nofollow - http://www.futurederm.com/2012/04/19/is-ethanol-in-skin-care-products-safe/

Still unconvinced??? Why is this ethanol actually drying? For an ethanol to be drying to the hair it must:

 1. extract and dissolute lipids. What are lipids? Fatty ACIDS. I will elaborate on why this is what this gel does later.

 2. be denatured. You may claim the ethanol in triethanolamine is not denatured. It comes from coconut, so it must not be denatured right? False. The fact that this is a clear gel means it was heated, and therefore denatured. These gels wouldn't be this clear if they didn't contain denatured alcohol. Below is a scientific study that shows the effect of denaturzation on the viscosity of protein systems. Note it also says some things about NaOH, which this product contains. No matter the amount of NaOH, it will always denature the protein systems in water based substances once heated. Once heated, that is when it forms a clear, gel consistency. This is where these products holding abilities and clear consistency come from.

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf

THIRD:


"Triethanolamine is an aminoalcohol. Neutralize acids to form SALTS plus water in exothermic reactions."
http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB9852620.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB9852620.htm



"The triethanolamine NEUTRALIZES fatty acids, adjusts and buffers the pH, and SOLUBILISES oils and other ingredients that are not completely soluble in water. Some common products in which triethanolamine is found are liquid laundry detergents, dishwashing liquids, general cleaners, hand cleaners, polishes, metalworking fluids, paints, shaving cream and printing inks"

"TEA is a fairly strong base: a 1% solution has a pH of approximately 10"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine

"phs 10-14. depilatory. swell hairs as much as 10 times the original size; may dissolve hair."

http://images116.fotki.com/v715/photos/9/3265899/12913134/dissolveproof-vi.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://images116.fotki.com/v715/photos/9/3265899/12913134/dissolveproof-vi.jpg

Because TEA is the 3rd ingredient in this gel and has a ph of 10, Polyacrylate acid was used to balance the ph and neutralize TEA, and TEA make Polyacrylate acid water soluble. Unfortunately the combination of the two forms a drying effect on the hair-- it turns into SALT, aka Sodium Hydroxide, aka NaOH which is also water soluble, btw.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080324143837AAcJ1Im" rel="nofollow - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080324143837AAcJ1Im
this source is reliable despite being on yahoo answers, as it was answered by a top contributor in the chemistry section.

It is also the main dissolving agent in lye relaxers. Lye= NaOH= Salt=Sodium Hydroxide. Ethanolamine is also a form of ammonia.
 “Triethanolamine is produced from the reaction of ethylene oxide with aqueous ammonia”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine

The alcohol does have a natural resistance to turning into salt and ammonia, however. BUT ONLY when oil is added to the formulation as a base. It needs to be oil based. Gel is water based, including this one. Salt is already drying, let alone putting the main ingredient used in relaxers in your product.
“It is ethanolamine's primary alcohol characteristic that makes it possible to be suspended in a soy Oil base as neither sodium carbonate (a primary salt) or ammonia (a primary base) will dilute with oil.”
http://EzineArticles.com/6884068" rel="nofollow - http://EzineArticles.com/6884068

Conclusion.

Wet line. Very drying and in 3rd ingredient. The ingredient right after it, polyacrylate acid, meant to make up for the fact TEA had a depilatory ph of 10 that dissolves hair, forms a SALT compound called NaOH, aka lye or sodium hydroxide, commonly used as an agent to break bonds in the protein of the hair in hair relaxers. This is the case with all acids. This is just how triETHANOLamine reacts with acid, AND YOU JUST CAN'T PUT tEa in a hair product, with out adding some form of acidic compound to bring the ph down to a non-depilatory level. There are also many proven reports that TEA is an irritant, and has been linked to cancer. Hmmm.. Just like lye relaxers have been.


Let me repeat that in the most blatant way possible.

1. LYE relaxers, which active ingredient is SODIUM HYDROXIDE.
2. Relaxers have been linked to cancer.

3. THIS water based gel has ingredients, TRIETHANOLAMINE and POLYACRYLATE ACID which together, (unless formulated in an oil base, which this gel "WETLINE" is NOT, it's a water based gel, the first ingredient is water) form the exact same compound.

4. This gel has ingredients that forms a compound--> Sodium Hydroxide, Lye, NaOH, SALT. Whatever you want to call it.

5. Studies about Triethanolamine, already show "moderate" cancer link. Where is the cancer link coming from? Sodium Hydroxide.

This product markets itself as being alcohol free, when it isn’t. Moisturizing, when it isn’t. Many people also claim this is a “Protein Free” styling gel. For you protein sensitive‘s, It has panthenol, which absorbs into the hair cortex similar to ethanol and plasticizes it, leaving a gummy waxy build up after awhile that causes dryness similar to protein and coconut oil can. Hope I helped you guys.



Replies:
Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 31 2014 at 9:58pm
Also, the top 5 ingredients contain tea, which means it is the top 5 most active ingredients in the gel formulation, whether the sodium hydroxide is at 5% concentration or not. The dilution in water is the exact reason the compound is formed. Compare to low lye relaxers, which still break bonds of hair diluted Sodium Hydroxide to 2.5%.

"A Low Lye relaxer has the lowest concentration of sodium hydroxide which is less than 2.5%. It is equally as effective as other Sodium Hydroxide relaxers however much more mild due to the percentage of active ingredient. The low lye relaxer gently loosens the bonds for increased manageability, while maintaining some level of texture in the hair."

http://www.designessentials.com/professional/science-of-hair/types-of-relaxers" rel="nofollow - http://www.designessentials.com/prof...es-of-relaxers

pretty much proves it.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 12:53pm
I put some of my comments in blue and their

directly quoted supports below:



"The experiments on the viscosity of denatured egg

albumin solutions provide a possible explanation of the

difficulties encountered in the reversal of the

denaturation of egg albumin."


okay, it's a lot so it can be confusing. it essentially

proves that a alkaline subsance(The alkaline egg), the

addition of an acid, water being a base, and the

denaturing effects of heating, that NaOH will be

produced. (or something that behaves like NaOH, for

example Calcium Hydroxide.)




"Effect of Water Added before and after Heating.--If anacid

solution of albumin is diluted with water before it is heated, the

water has a much greater effect in lowering the viscosity than if

it is added after the heating of the more concentrated solution."


"Effect of Addition of Native Protein.--The addition of native,


salt-free egg albumin to albumin heated in acid has the same


sort of effect as the addition of NaOH."


Why? Because it in total combination makes it difficult

for the salt turning properties to completely dissolve,

meaning the salt compound and the compound that

behaves like salt (specifically NaOH) is still formed.






"Concentrated solutions of proteins in acid or alkali may

become very viscous on denaturation of the protein and

under suitable conditions a moderately viscous solution

can be converted by heating into a clear gel."


"The more acid the solutions the less viscous they are after

being heated and then cooled, until finally further addition of acid

makes them more viscous again and slightly opalescent. As in

other protein phenomena, after a certain point the addition of

acid has the same effect as the addition of salt."

also resulting in the clear color and gel consistency (aka

"clear colored viscious liquid". With out heat, the colors

would be "opalescent" With out heat, NaOH or similar

behaving compounds would not form.




"Effect of Addition of Native Protein.--The addition of native, salt-

free egg albumin to albumin heated in acid has the same sort of

effect as the addition of NaOH. "

Also NaOH's protein bond breaking properties are not

singularily reliant on the ph alone
. No where have i

said the ph is what causes the hair bonds to break in

this gel. Sodium bicarbonate would never have this

effect on the hair. Neither would sodium chloride.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiralHam
Lots of organic compounds are colorless and transparent in nature. Lots of them - sugar, salt, gelatin sheets, what have you. Color and transparency don't have anything to do with proteins being denatured. Or whatever it is that's trying to be established; this had been hard to follow.
"Concentrated solutions of proteins in acid or alkali may

become very viscous on denaturation of the protein and

under suitable conditions a moderately viscous solution

can be converted by heating into a clear gel."

All quotes were gotten here:

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf


THE EFFECT OF DENATURATION ON THE VISCOSITY OF PROTEIN SYSTEMS BY M. L.

ANSON A~D A. E. MIRSKY (From tke Laboratories of The Rockefeller Institute for

Medical Research, Princeton, N. Y., and the ttospital of The Rockefeller Institute for

Medical Researck, New York) (Accepted for publication, December 2, 1931]


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 2:00pm

http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB3134148.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB3134148.htm



http://https://www.embl.de/pepcore/pepcore_services/protein_purification/extraction_clarification/lysis_buffer_additives/" rel="nofollow - https://www.embl.de/pepcore/pepcore_services/protein_purification/extraction_clarification/lysis_buffer_additives/




Posted By: cosmochica010
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 2:44pm
Is the black tea rinse still okay to do?


Posted By: NARSAddict
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by cosmochica010 cosmochica010 wrote:

Is the black tea rinse still okay to do?


Yes you can.  The TEA mentioned originally is (t)ri(e)thanol(a)mine, not tea leaves whose scientific name I can't recall at the moment.  I hope that clears up any confusion.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 5:36pm
TEA forms lye: Summary of Scientific facts that is easy and quick to read. All points are directly from scientific fact, and do no stray in anyway:

TEA is an amino alcohol.

TEA+Acid+water base+ flash heat= Lye, only in that exact order. Thick viscosity, sharply transparent clear color. Addition of artificial food coloring will show in that it will have tint, but not be cloudy at all

TEA+ water base+ flash heat+acid= no lye  more watery consistency, slightly opalescent, slightly cloudy

TEA+ Acid+ Oil or polymer base+ heat= no lye

No denatured Alcohol + no heating + waterbase+ acid= no lye thick viscosity, opalescent and cloudy

Based on different hair types including porositiy, thickness of hair strand, density, and curl type, directly effect the way lye and lye replacements effect individual hairs.

This is why cosmotologists take these into occount when choosing your relaxer strength. This is also why some hair types are still able to thrive using relaxers, despite the fact their protein bonds are being broken.

 Some one with type 3c, thick hair strands and high porous hair may fall into the unaffected category. Other hair's are to fragile, and cannot tolerate any levels of lye at all. Some have mixtures of several in their hair.

If you have mixed hair types, this plays a role. The only area i got the bald spot in: low porosity, extremely fine, type 4c, low density very close to my edges.

Summary of facts that is easy and quick to read:

1. Relaxers and low/no lye relaxers have a chemical compound that Forms NaOH or functions the same way, and are equality effective in breaking hair protein bonds.

2. Low lye relaxers have been shown to dissolve the bonds of the hair cuticle, despite the fact there is only 2.5% concentration of NaOH.

3. Dispite the fact advertisers say the "no lye" is more gentle, there is no evidence that it actually is more gentle on the hair protein. It just works slower, but still dissolves the hair. calcium hydroxide or guanidine hydroxide.

4. Relaxers like Japanese perms Keratin treatments and Carribien dream relaxers still follow this category.

5. Caribbean Dream Relaxer uses cysteamine hydrochloride which permanently changes the texture of hair. http://www.megselegantline.com/?page_id=841


6. Japanese straighters use thermal reconditioning "Japanese hair straightening, also called thermal reconditioning, is a method of transforming even the curliest locks into pin-straight hair."
http://www.salontrendz.com/japanese-hair-straightening.html#WhatisJapaneseHairStraightening

7. Both gels, ecostyler gel and wetline are water based, like most relaxers and contain TEA and an acid. If relaxers were not water based, it would be impossible for certain relaxers like Carribean dream to change the hair texture.

8. Because of the clear viscious consistency, the proteins in the gel have been thermally denatured through heating.

9. Any Alkaline Alcohols become denatured when an acid is added to it(for ph balancing), and then heated. This is true of ethanol, ethanolamine, and Triethanolamine.

10. The depilatory ability of the salt, when formed is directly reliant on the initial alkalinity level. Alkalinity of 10-14, will form lye. Alkalinity of 7-9 will form non-depilatory (at most drying) salts, like sodium chloride, aka table salt. No dissolving, because no form of lye.

11. Alcohol has a natural resistance to turning into a salt compound(like NaOH). This is only relevant in oil based products, and water based products that have not been flash heated/thermally denatured.

12. Both Wetine and Ecostyler have been thermally denatured, hence their clear color and thick, viscous consistency.

13. Triethanolamine will turn into an ammonium salt compound under these conditions: TEA+Acid+water base+ heat= Lye, in that exact order. Specifically Triethanolamine Hydrochloride, aka Triethanolamine acid-- exact chemical structure as NaOH.

<----TEA acid.

14. Ph alone is not what makes NaOH, sodium hydroxide a chemical depilatory, and breaks hair protein bonds not matter what ph.

15. The fact that it is a compound with hydroxide is in the compound makes it able to dissolve hair strands. Both this in combination with high ph create the dissolving effect with relaxers.

16. TEA+ Acid+ Oil/ polymer/ emollient base+ heat= no lye, no texture change possible. Why? Silicones, oils, and polymers and other emollients are heat protectants for a reason.

17. TEA+ water base+ heat+acid= non clear opalescent gel, no lye. Why? NaOH only forms in TEA if the water based substance has had acid added before heating.


Solutions.

1. Use a gel that does not contain denatured alcohols, Use a gel that does not contain TEA or keratin Amino acids or denatured amino alcohols.

2.  Use a certifiably organic gel that although contains denatured alcohol, the alcohol was heated before adding it to formulation with acid.

The easiest way to identify what you want to be using, is the color will be naturally slightly opalescent(slight tint of color), without added colorings. With gels that contain no denatured alcohol or thermal heating, the consistency will be thick.

For gels that do contain denatured alcohol, the consistency will be more watery. This means it has been thermally denatured/ denatured with flash heat before being added to the formulation containing acid.



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 9:27pm



kccc close up: opalescent, viscious. No Alcohols, no thermal heating. No Lye Compound formed




Aubrey organic mandarin Magic:
slightly opalescent, more watery. No artificial coloring. Denatured alcohols, no thermal heating. Ph neutralizing acid safely neutralizes alkalinity of denatured alcohol. No Lye compound formed, though drying due to the fact it is still denatured alcohol.


Second ingredient is alcohol denatured:



Wet line: Clear, viscous/thick consistency. Denatured thermally, after addition of ph neutralizing acid. Forms Lye Compound.




Eco Styler Gel:
Forms lye compound. EA+Acid+water base+ flash heat= Lye , proof in thick viscosity and transparency.
Consistency is viscous. NOT opalescent, despite tint. Tint is due to added artificial coloring, to give the appearance of having olive oil in reality, olive oil is way at the bottom of ingredient list.  this is as clear as wetline, there is just artificial colorings in it, hence why it is so transparent you can see right through it, instead of cloudy, like kccc or Aubrey organic Mandarin Magic.

Ingredients: WATER (AQUA) , carbomer , Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein , PVP , glycerin , triethanolamine , Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate , polysorbate 20 , Tetrasodium Edta , Olive Oil , fragrance , Blue #1 , Yellow #11




Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 10:16pm
Sorry guys, someone informed me that the color coding actually made this harder to read. I am reposting this with edited font:

Why you may want avoid TEA in your water based hair products, depending on your hair's sensitivities:

Hi, everyone. I have previously posted my previous negative experiences with ecostyler gel causing me baldspots, due to my protien sensitivity, in my low porosity type 4 hair. While I was in search of products to use as a replacement, I ran across Wet line gel, which claimed to be alcohol free, and moisturizing. Many People recommened it as a protein free gel. After i still experienced continuous thinning and immediately quit the product. I was aware my hair hated proteins, due to the brittle crunchy feeling I got when I used them. Wet line didn't contain hydrolyzed wheat protein. And something wasn’t right. From the beginning, my hair was thinning and I wasn’t seeing hair coming out, just like with the Ecostyler gel.

it took me a very long time to notice what was in this product that was directly agitating what I assumed to be my protein sensitivity, since they marketed themselves as protein free and alcohol free. I had the gut feeling it was triethanolamine, which was proven to be an irritant, but was unable to find specific testimony, so I was more or less speculating maybe it had something to do with the alkaline ph at the time.

So I recently looked at the chemical structure of triethanolamine and did some thorough research. I discovered a few shocking things about the ingredients in this product, and how they work together: triethanolamine and polyacrylate acid. I will order my points from bad to worse.


WE ALREADY KNOW:

Toxic Chemicals, Materials and Carcinogens in Household Products: Triethanolamine: Toxic chemical in Household Cosmetics Products

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/706639/TRIETHANOLAMINE/" rel="nofollow - TRIETHANOLAMINE || Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group

We are told this is a moderate irritant, and has been shown to be a human skin toxin or allergent, and expected to cause non-reproductive organ toxicity, and has been linked to cancer. These have all been brushed off as moderate concerns though.

btw my post about ecostyler is on amazon, not this site. Before combating evidence, take your time to read everything and visit the sourced material.

FIRST:

Triethanolamine is a surficant. Yes it is a water soluble surficant. So are proteins, and some watersoluable silicones. Proteins in gel act as water soluble surficants. Coconut oil is a water soluable surficant. They all still latch on to the hair and plasticize it, and in many cases work against moisture as they are not moisturizers, but plasticizing emollients and moisturizing agents that need to work in conjunction with water in order to be effective in hydration. But you are still leaving this on your hair for a substantial amount of time, and depending on your hair type and sensitivities, Use Caution.

SECOND:

Now, look at the word, triETHANOLamine. Ethanol.

Ethanol is a drying alcohol. If any of you are reporting dryness and brittleness, this is what is affecting you, it isn't random.

"Ethanolamine is an organic compound that is naturally found in coconut oil and is a primary amine and primary alcohol"
http://EzineArticles.com/6884068" rel="nofollow - http://EzineArticles.com/6884068

"As I explained last week in The 5 Most Common Mistakes Even Skin Experts Make, it is well-established that ethanol can reduce water content via a form of water loss known as transepidermal water loss (TEWL) (1), lipid content via extraction and dissolution (2), and protein content via denaturation (3). These properties allow for ethanol to be an effective (and drying) penetration enhancer."

"Ethanol in itself isn’t harmful. It’s the DRYING effect that can lead to other problems."
FutureDerm - Is Ethanol in Skin Care Products Safe?

Still unconvinced??? Why is this ethanol actually drying? For an ethanol to be drying to the hair it must:

1. extract and dissolute lipids. What are lipids? Fatty ACIDS. I will elaborate on why this is what this gel does later.

2. be denatured. You may claim the ethanol in triethanolamine is not denatured. It comes from coconut, so it must not be denatured right? False. The fact that this is a clear gel means it was heated, and therefore denatured. These gels wouldn't be this clear if they didn't contain denatured alcohol. Below is a scientific study that shows the effect of denaturzation on the viscosity of protein systems. Note it also says some things about NaOH, which this product contains. No matter the amount of NaOH, it will always denature the protein systems in water based substances once heated. Once heated, that is when it forms a clear, gel consistency. This is where these products holding abilities and clear consistency come from.

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf

THIRD:


"Triethanolamine is an aminoalcohol. Neutralize acids to form SALTS plus water in exothermic reactions."
Triethanolamine | 102-71-6



"The triethanolamine NEUTRALIZES fatty acids, adjusts and buffers the pH, and SOLUBILISES oils and other ingredients that are not completely soluble in water. Some common products in which triethanolamine is found are liquid laundry detergents, dishwashing liquids, general cleaners, hand cleaners, polishes, metalworking fluids, paints, shaving cream and printing inks"

"TEA is a fairly strong base: a 1% solution has a pH of approximately 10"

Triethanolamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"phs 10-14. depilatory. swell hairs as much as 10 times the original size; may dissolve hair."

http://images116.fotki.com/v715/phot...veproof-vi.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://images116.fotki.com/v715/phot...veproof-vi.jpg

Because TEA is the 3rd ingredient in this gel and has a ph of 10, Polyacrylate acid was used to balance the ph and neutralize TEA, and TEA make Polyacrylate acid water soluble. Unfortunately the combination of the two forms a drying effect on the hair-- it turns into SALT, aka Sodium Hydroxide, aka NaOH which is also water soluble, btw.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4143837AAcJ1Im" rel="nofollow - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4143837AAcJ1Im
this source is reliable despite being on yahoo answers, as it was answered by a top contributor in the chemistry section.

It is also the main dissolving agent in lye relaxers. Lye= NaOH= Salt=Sodium Hydroxide. Ethanolamine is also a form of ammonia.
“Triethanolamine is produced from the reaction of ethylene oxide with aqueous ammonia”
Triethanolamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The alcohol does have a natural resistance to turning into salt and ammonia, however. BUT ONLY when oil is added to the formulation as a base. It needs to be oil based. Gel is water based, including this one. Salt is already drying, let alone putting the main ingredient used in relaxers in your product.
“It is ethanolamine's primary alcohol characteristic that makes it possible to be suspended in a soy Oil base as neither sodium carbonate (a primary salt) or ammonia (a primary base) will dilute with oil.”
http://EzineArticles.com/6884068" rel="nofollow - http://EzineArticles.com/6884068

Conclusion.

Wet line. Very drying and in 3rd ingredient. The ingredient right after it, polyacrylate acid, meant to make up for the fact TEA had a depilatory ph of 10 that dissolves hair, forms a SALT compound called NaOH, aka lye or sodium hydroxide, commonly used as an agent to break bonds in the protein of the hair in hair relaxers. This is the case with all acids. This is just how triETHANOLamine reacts with acid, AND YOU JUST CAN'T PUT tEa in a hair product, with out adding some form of acidic compound to bring the ph down to a non-depilatory level. There are also many proven reports that TEA is an irritant, and has been linked to cancer. Hmmm.. Just like lye relaxers have been.

Let me repeat that in the most blatant way possible.

1. LYE relaxers, which active ingredient is SODIUM HYDROXIDE.
2. Relaxers have been linked to cancer.

3. THIS water based gel has ingredients, TRIETHANOLAMINE and POLYACRYLATE ACID which together, (unless formulated in an oil base, which this gel "WETLINE" is NOT, it's a water based gel, the first ingredient is water) form the exact same compound.

4. This gel has ingredients that forms a compound--> Sodium Hydroxide, Lye, NaOH, SALT. Whatever you want to call it.

5. Studies about Triethanolamine, already show "moderate" cancer link. Where is the cancer link coming from? Sodium Hydroxide.

6. low lye relaxers contain percentages of only 2.5% concentration Sodium hydroxide. They are considered a low risk on ewg.com, but still equally as effective as NaOH, and break bonds of the hair. They also contain heavy oils to help absorb some of the lye forming effect, but are still water based.

7. Sodium hydroxide contained in gel is at 5% concentration. Considered a moderate risk. Gel is water based carbomer would never be enough to absorb all the lye forming effects, because it is a WATER BASED product.

This product markets itself as being alcohol free, when it technically isn’t. Moisturizing, when it isn’t. Many people also claim this is a “Protein Free” styling gel. For you protein sensitive‘s, It has panthenol, which absorbs into the hair cortex similar to ethanol and plasticizes it, leaving a gummy waxy build up after awhile that causes dryness similar to protein and coconut oil can. Hope I helped you guys.


Posted By: I amMrsPP
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 10:49pm
Don't you have an account on Naturallycurly.com. I am a member  there and I saw the chemists disagreeing with everything you said in this post there if you the same person


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 01 2014 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by I amMrsPP I amMrsPP wrote:

Don't you have an account on Naturallycurly.com. I am a member  there and I saw the chemists disagreeing with everything you said in this post there if you the same person


None of those people were chemists. None of them read the entire abstracts. The only one who was a chemist, was not an expert on TEA or other denatured alcohol compounds reaction in water based heated substances with acid. She also did not read the scientific abstract. If you are going to start trolling here, i will report and block you so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS669AzO8bw" rel="nofollow - f** off . Even I have a limited level of patience for that degree of F*** b*llSh**. Several of my evidences are proven by real science, direct quoted from primary sourced scientific studies. I spent hours losing sleep for 2 days straight, actually reading the whole study and abstract, researching meanings i didn't understand, getting my sh** together with my entire being and effort. If you don't believe it when there are direct quotations and links to the abstract that you http://i1.wp.com/memecollection.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/didnt-read-lol-gif-4.gif?w=900" rel="nofollow - inherently chose not to read in full , just f*** off, and take your half assed complaints else where. http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/4/17/13/anigif_enhanced-buzz-26272-1334684200-14.gif" rel="nofollow - Just F**k back off to Naturally Curly and don't come back . Angry

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/members/spiralham.html" rel="nofollow - SpiralHam , only chemist on naturally curly:

"So, I am a chemist even though I don't play one on TV... And I don't know enough about TEA and how it may or may not react with other things to produce NaOH, etc. I don't know enough about product formulation to answer those questions. So I won't try to address them. And I don't have the time to wade through the scientific literature at this time."

and she never did come back to refute was i was saying.

Many of the sheeple on that site were ridiculous mob mentality trolls and idiots when on my post. All the comments were an array of white and 1 biracial  sheeple with high poros giant high density ringlets and waves trying to tell me relaxers don't dissolve anyone's hair, not even low poros type 4c fine hair. (the only section of my mixed textures that got the bald spot. I have mixed curl pattern and also strand thickness on different parts of my head) Also, this was the orignial site my post is from. I reposted it for people with my hair type on that site to see and i got smothered by an array of troll posts, like


(Paraphrasing, because the admin removed it after i reported it.
"I experienced huge clumps of bald spots due to silk protein. Silk protein is in pigs! Many gels have pig in it it, it comes from the testicles. Scientific evidence http://wtfoodge.com/this-pig-has-huge-testicles/" rel="nofollow - http://wtfoodge.com/this-pig-has-huge-testicles/ "

"look at this abstract! http://www.zazzle.com/abstract_art_pig_ties-151286608060717559" rel="nofollow - http://www.zazzle.com/abstract_art_pig_ties-151286608060717559 "
"Tea is in pig testicles, so it must be the pig testicles"

Direct quotation:

"Yes, that's what I said, TEA comes from pigs. A scientist designed that necktie so it doesn't choke people to death. I have proven this."

That dumb motherf**Clap

She also called me a trolling dumbass, and said i was stupid which i reported and the admin removed. Now get out of here trollThumbs Down.




Posted By: exceedinggrace
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 12:14am
Wow lol. If they made u this pissed off they must have been some real bullshtters. Even whe u had that debate with lady aradia u never cursed once. Then again she never said anuthing anywhere near this lvl of stupidity i am seeing quoted here. Foolishness is a pity smfh


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 12:24am
Originally posted by exceedinggrace exceedinggrace wrote:

Wow lol. If they made u this pissed off they must have been some real bullshtters. Even whe u had that debate with lady aradia u never cursed once. Then again she never said anuthing anywhere near this lvl of stupidity i am seeing quoted here. Foolishness is a pity smfh

CryIt's so good to be back on a site with normal f** people, i freaking swear i was losing hope in humanity. It's like no one on the site had any critical thinking skills. Morons, let them 2c 3c ignoramuses ignorantly slab denatured alcohol and lye salt  on their heads like brain dead sheeple, and wonder why their hair is chronically frizzy, while their 4c counterparts who listened have no frizz or thinning. Afterall they are too good for science coming out of a nigerian american's mouth. It will be a great laugh. I'm never going on that site again. When I tried to post the summarized list and information and pictures, and directly sourced quotations from the study, i got a letter from the admin to "STOP NOW!!" and she deleted my posts, f*ggin wasted my time going their dumbass site


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 12:55am
i also dont normally play the race card, but as soon as i uploaded my file picture that shows my race (the one i drew myself that is also my avatar here) there was like 5 minutes that passed and then an influx of trolls came in hoping to undermine me and tell me i dont know what i am talking about when i am simply repeating scientific evidence. Up until that point, people seemed to be agreeing with my explanations, and calling it great info. Afterward, i got these dumb mofos coming at me with crap like, (paraphased)

"fda information isn't always credible."

 "Just because the university of boston regulation board approves the study doesnt mean its true. " what?

"Just because they are hard facts doesnt mean i cant interpet them differently" what?

"just because you cite several correct quotes from scientific abstracts doesnt mean i will read it"

"inserted meme pic about time being wasted on irrelevant info" what?

"those scientists you directly quoted from a study published by princeton university are ignorant. I, a random internet troll am far more intelligent than them" what?

Like are you freaking kidding? Bastards.


Posted By: aharri23
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 8:27am
You convinced me to throw away all my products with triethanolamine..Lol well I'll let you know how it goes. I am 2 days in so far!


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 11:21am
That's okay girl. That's why we bout to blow up this maxhydrationmethod.com!!! 

Pretty soon the curly nikki folks will be asking you to write blog posts lol


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 11:49am
thanks kwicherbichen. LOL


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 8:42pm


the finer your hair strands are, the easier it is for depilatory substances to get to your cortex, and dissolve it completely.

this is because the fineness of your hair strand is dependent on the accumulative amount of cuticle layers you have.

Once the Depilatory substance eats through the proteins of the entire cuticle layer, which will happen easier and faster or slower depending on how many cuticle layers you have, it will dissolve your cortex and medulla completely.

This is why all strand thicknesses are not suitable for the same levels of relaxer strength, and why some hair types have higher sensitivity to even the lowest levels of relaxer strength.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 8:44pm


Chemically treated, heat damaged, color damaged, and naturally high porus hair are all in the same category of high poros hair.

Relaxers will create "high porous" hair artificially, by eating holes into your cuticle layer like swiss cheese and exposing parts of your cortex. The level of cortex exposure depends on the resistance level based on the fineness or thickness of your hair cuticle layers.



Anything that has this effect on your cuticle layer will give you split ends. That is why artificially high porous hair needs silicones to keep it from snapping.

"Split ends are the peeling away of the outer protective layers of the hair shaft and exposure of the fragile inner layer."




Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 9:31pm


Tighter hair types are the most effected, as the tendency to be more heavy handed to thoroughly coat the hair with either curl definer or relaxer means you are using higher quantities of the depilatory protein bond breaking products and tools than some one with type 1 or 2 hair, who can use a dime size amount of product and can apply it to their whole head at once and have it evenly spread.

Tighter hair types have to do their hair in very small sections, no matter what they are doing. detangling, clarifying, defining, relaxing, straightening. And the denser your hair, the heavy handed you have to be to use defining or relaxing products, and the more times you have to run over your hair section with straightening heat tools.


Tighter hair types are also more likely to be effected by TEA and depilatories because they have natural difficulty of protective hair sebum to spread evenly along the hair shaft. Straighter textures have an easier time having their natural hair emollient slide down the shaft, further protecting hair cuticle from depilatory penetration.


Notice the similarities in curl shape of 4a hair and shape of 4c hair. Both form coils. The only difference is that 4c hair is so tightly coiled that it has the tenancy to coil and loop upon itself. This will not be able to happen with added weight of moisture retained within the hair cortex, which is why with max hydration, even type 4b and especially 4c hair can clump from root to tip. Do not confuse max hydrated 4c hair with 4a hair, because it isn't. Your hair has just been able to thrive because all the conditions necessary have been met and harmonized by completing the method.


Posted By: sugabanana
Date Posted: Apr 02 2014 at 9:47pm
whoa im learning. keep going pink! My hair will be the test of this research because I have 4c that Low porosity and thats nice and soft when wet but the opposite when it dries. Once I find a good reggie then i'm sticking to it.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 04 2014 at 5:49pm


Notice how see through wet line is. no gel should be that clear.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 07 2014 at 3:41pm
Btw, I wanted to add one last thing about relaxers, in relation to the lye forming gels. Just because your hair seems to do fine with relaxers, doesn't mean your hair "likes" it, or is healthy. I hear this a lot. A person gets a relaxer and their hair gets a little past their shoulders and looks thick, so they say, "my hair likes relaxers".

One thing that needs to be understood is that just because your hair has a high toleration of something, doesn't mean it likes it. relaxers still eat holes in your hair cuticle, it's just some people have strong enough hair to withstand it. Their hair is still getting damaged, the effects are happening slower. You should actually take that as a sign that once you cut the depilatory relaxers, your hair would probably end up past waist length in 4 years. Basically if you think your hair is healthy now, with all the dissolved areas of your cuticle, it would probably grow like weeds after going natural(unless your hair care practices are extremely backward) while ur cuticles are at their highest potential.

It's like stabbing two different people and saying the one that took longer to keel over likes getting stabbed. I know it seems random, but i was thinking about it when i had that ridiculous troll-fest on naturally curly and this woman claimed lye relaxers do not eat hair because her hair does fine. If your hair loves it so much, try re-relaxing hair you already processed and see how much your hair loves it as it falls into the sink. Even more tolerating hair types have their limit.

On that note, consider that if you use a gel like wet line or ecostyler often, the effects accumulate over time, similar to the way relaxing the same pre-relaxed hair over and over causes over processing and dissolving and breakage. Some people will be "over processed" faster than others, where they just get a bald spot(like i did), others will be effected slower, maybe finding their ends breaking off and have trouble retaining length.


Posted By: Christine UK
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 5:21am
Hi Pinkecube.  Never really used gel before, approx 2-3x this year.  However, started using the eco styler that I had on this method.  KCCC is not affordable right now, but what other gels can you recommend that can last a while and doesn't cost the earth foryour UK subscribers?  Can I use flaxseed gel instead?  Only trouble is when I used it a couple of times for twist outs, it cause a little flakiness.  I think this could have been down to how I was using it on the following days i.e applying on dry hair?  I don't know.  Been trying to put a recipe together but just researching a few mucilaginous botanicals.Smile


Posted By: AmberColour
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 8:24pm
Wow, glad I saw this post.
I have ecostyler gel which I've used on my hair, and I almost rebought some.
I'm gonna trash this stuff.Dead


Posted By: aharri23
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 8:29pm
It really upsets me how people can use ecostyler religiously and still get great results like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5cCxAIZOE

meanwhile if I use it my hair is dry and brittle. I hope I can get hair like his from doing the MHM, but I think his hair is a different texture than mine so we'll see.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by AmberColour AmberColour wrote:

Wow, glad I saw this post.
I have ecostyler gel which I've used on my hair, and I almost rebought some.
I'm gonna trash this stuff.Dead


I'm glad i could help AmberColour.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by aharri23 aharri23 wrote:

It really upsets me how people can use ecostyler religiously and still get great results like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5cCxAIZOE

meanwhile if I use it my hair is dry and brittle. I hope I can get hair like his from doing the MHM, but I think his hair is a different texture than mine so we'll see.


I believe his hair is high porosity. Similar to "Mahogany Curl's" (youtube) texture and she also says she is high porosity. She used eco styler gel religiously as well, and her hair is extremely healthy. when i tried to copy that, I got crunchy potato chip hair, thinning, and bald spot galore(no shedding, showing my hair was dissolved the way over processed relaxed hair dissolves) . I realized it was the denatured alcohol (TEA) after trying different gels of the similar symptoms and still having breakage.

That's why i was so angry to even have a bunch of white people with 2c and 3b hair (i thought the one woman was biracial because she said she had relaxers, but actually white people relax their hair a lot as well and her hair looked like a white person's in her avatar) were basically denying my existence because those ingredients didn't effect them. To the point where they were trying to act like the offended victims.

 I was polite the whole time, and they just kept questioning me trying to find what i was doing wrong but i experimented up and down and around the town with that gel. I mixed it with shea butter before layering it over my conditioner, which i used heavy amounts of. I mixed it with acv to lower the ph. I mixed it with water. I mixed it with conditioner. I tried only using it for my edges. I tried only using it for twist outs. I tried switching to a gel without protein. But that wasn't good enough. It's my hair, not the product. I have a "problem that i should go to the dermatologist for". Even though i repeated over and over and over again that the baldspot stopped getting bigger when i stopped using the gel. And now it is grown back in because of GHE and the Max Hydration Method.

 They wanted to undermine me and make it seem like i have no common sense or something. They were disgusting and hostile because i was sharing my experience. And then one of their left over flea trolls tried to dance their way back over here and spread some more bull. And i know some of them stalked me on Amazon and thumbed down my review. One of them even admitted she had a "friend" that works for the company i was complaining about. But i think she simply worked for the company.


I was pissed to say the least. But i'm glad i didn't put my precious hair to waste and figured out the reason why after all this time. And i'm gonna let people know about it, they are not gonna smother me as i am telling the truth and have done the required research.


Posted By: AmberColour
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by aharri23 aharri23 wrote:

It really upsets me how people can use ecostyler religiously and still get great results like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5cCxAIZOE

meanwhile if I use it my hair is dry and brittle. I hope I can get hair like his from doing the MHM, but I think his hair is a different texture than mine so we'll see.
Wow, yeah, his hair turned out great.
When the video first started I thought he had a different hair type, but I think his is similar to mine.
But not sure.


Posted By: AmberColour
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 9:45pm
@pinkecube

Glad you found something that worked for you!
And you are around commonfolk here.Smile
I really do want to try the MHM hopefully soon.
I'll post my results in your thread when that happens.



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 08 2014 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by AmberColour AmberColour wrote:

@pinkecube

Glad you found something that worked for you!
And you are around commonfolk here.Smile
I really do want to try the MHM hopefully soon.
I'll post my results in your thread when that happens.



Thanks Ambercolor Smile. It will be great if you can try the regimen and post your results and experience when that time comes, that would be great! btw the revised regimen is on this page some mixtures have been altered and also it has more links.

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937_page72.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937_page72.html


Posted By: afro-latina thespian
Date Posted: Jun 19 2014 at 7:50pm
I'm new to BHM - I mostly just creep, so this is my first post. I'm thankful for coming across this topic because I use eco styler gel often and wonder why my hair breaks so much or why it's so dry. You did a great job of backing up your facts with sources and literal information - not just what you "think." I can tell you did thorough research on this topic. I'll definitely check out your max hydration method... I scanned the topic about ten minutes ago to see what it was about, but I'll definitely be looking into it now. Again, thank you for this post and good work!


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 20 2014 at 1:17am
Originally posted by afro-latina thespian afro-latina thespian wrote:

I'm new to BHM - I mostly just creep, so this is my first post. I'm thankful for coming across this topic because I use eco styler gel often and wonder why my hair breaks so much or why it's so dry. You did a great job of backing up your facts with sources and literal information - not just what you "think." I can tell you did thorough research on this topic. I'll definitely check out your max hydration method... I scanned the topic about ten minutes ago to see what it was about, but I'll definitely be looking into it now. Again, thank you for this post and good work!

hi afro-latina thespian, thank you. Im glad i could help you figure out why that terrible gel was breaking your hair. Yes read into the other post, its a great regimen. Page 72 has the full revised regimen. Msdeekay2012 on youtube also recently made a video of her before and after 2 month results on her 4c hair.


Posted By: ichoose2believe
Date Posted: Jun 20 2014 at 9:10am
Thumbs Up Thanks Pinkecube for all the good information. I am so glad that I decided to just buy the KCCC to use since the big chop (and going natural). 

I loved the link to more info about relaxers. My mom is a "leave it in until bone straight" type and now her hair won't grow past her ears and since she has gotten older its getting thinner. 

Thank you for doing all that research. Information is Power :) 


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 20 2014 at 11:02am
Originally posted by ichoose2believe ichoose2believe wrote:

Thumbs Up Thanks Pinkecube for all the good information. I am so glad that I decided to just buy the KCCC to use since the big chop (and going natural). 

I loved the link to more info about relaxers. My mom is a "leave it in until bone straight" type and now her hair won't grow past her ears and since she has gotten older its getting thinner. 

Thank you for doing all that research. Information is Power :) 


Your welcome I'm glad to see this info is being appreciated, thank youSmile


Posted By: bbeautyful
Date Posted: Sep 03 2014 at 2:41pm
I haven't been on the forum in a while, however, I logged on when my intern mentioned the site today. This post caught my eye. I am a cosmetic chemist and started my career formulating for hair care products targeted for ethnic hair.

I agree that the OP took her time to do extensive research on the topic! Some of the things said is far fetched, IMO. Now this isn't to discredit anyone, however, out of respect for other formulators and brands I felt the need to state my professional experience.

One of my first projects was a hair gel similar to KCC, therefore, I have quite some knowledge on hair gels. Yes, there has been some negative connotations associated with TEA.

In the purpose of hair gels, TEA's function is as a neutralizer! Triethanolamine is used primarily to neutralize polymers who have lower pH levels (below 5). Depending on the amount of polymer, I've used TEA at no more than 0.3% of the total formula. Associating TEA to ethanol is on the extreme. Just because ethanol is in the technical name, doesn't mean it is the same as ethanol.

As the OP stated, TEA is formed from ethylene oxide and ammonia. Ethanol is ethyl alcohol (or grain alcohol such as Everclear). Denatured alcohols are those like SDA 40B, SDA 38B-17, etc. Denatured means different materials were added to the ethanol to make them unsuitable for human consumption. The denaturation (dealing with proteins) that is being discussed in the post should NOT be confused with denatured alcohol. It is not the same.

The statement that a clear gel can only be formed when heat is introduced is absolutely false. In actuality, I've never used heat when making crystal clear hair gels. It isn't necessary. A clear gel means that the polymer used was properly neutralized. In this case with Wetline, the polymer is polyacrylic acid which is a component of carbomer. Holding power comes from the actual polymer.

With TEA being the 3rd ingredient, that means that there isn't anything substantial in the formula. It is most likely 85-90% water. The polyacrylic acid is not used to balance pH and neutralize TEA, it's the reverse.

I'm all for self educating yourself, however, we can all be guilty of digging too deep. I'm not at all saying this product isn't causing the problems mentioned. Just be careful when presenting information to the public.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Sep 06 2014 at 1:54pm
@bbeautyful yes i'm aware TEA is a neutralizer, it is practically the base of everything that has been mentioned. "TEA reacts with acids and neutralizes to form salts in water based products". The point is supposed to be that TEA does react with acids to neutralize the ph and it because of that forms salts. I was going by the order of the ingredients, but either way the fact of the matter is the relationship of these two ingredients is that they will neutralize the other. Whether acid or base is added to the other first, both will neutralize the other. Since Polyacrylate is less in amount than the TEA in this ingredient list it is fair to assume it is being used to lower the ph of the TEA. It is going form the same compound so it really does not make a difference either way.

Ingredients for Wetline: WATER, CARBOMER, TRIETHANOLAMINE, POLYACRYLATE ACID, GLYCERIN, FRAGANCE, METHYLISOTIAZOLINONE, METHOXY, CINNAMIDOPROPYL HYDROXYSULTAINE, PANTHENOL, ALOE VERA EXTRACT, TETRASODIUM EDTA, COLORANT FD&C VIOLET #2

It is not extreme to associate TEA with ethanol, it is an ethanolamine, an amino alcohol and research shows that it behaves the same way as ethanol in the context of what was being talked about in the post. It is that alcohol characteristic that makes the difference whether the product containing TEA is water based or oil based. Amino alcohols (like ethanolamine) themselves are in fact drying once denatured.

I also never said that the denaturation due to proteins was the exact same as denatured alcohol. I stated that denaturation of alcohol due to heating like discussed in the post, is actually different than if the alcohol was already denatured before adding it to the gel. "Triethanolamine is an aminoalcohol. Neutralizes acids to form SALTS plus water in exothermic reactions." So I'm being very specific about heating and provided a real life examples compared side by side to show that you cannot get a completely clear gel with out heating it the way described in the post, and it absolutely is in line with what was described in the study.  That is why I included the photos of the aubrey organics gel. It contains denatured alcohol and a made a point to specifically contrast it with the type of denaturing I was talking about. I emphasized that though they are both being denatured, the way it is denatured (no heating, before heating, or after heating, etc) is what matters. How exactly an alcohol was denatured before being added to the gel is kind of irrelevant because I was talking specifically about denaturing due to heat when done in a specific order, to get the clear gel result. So what you are saying doesn't conflict with anything I said.

There may not be only one way to get gel to look Crystal clear, but the parameters of what I was talking about in this post were extremely specific so don't try to over generalize it. I said over and over that if the gel actually contains TEA or alcohol and it is crystal clear, (it will always contain an acid along with it) then you can assume it has been heated to be denatured. There may be other ways to get gels crystal clear, but if they don't contain TEA or alcohol, then they are not what I am talking about. BTW you say you have made crystal clear gels before but I am not inclined to believe that unless you show what product it is you are talking about. How should I just take your word for it? Provide proof, pictures. How do I know your "crystal clear" isn't just slightly opalescent or foggy like the aubrey organic or even giovanni LA styling gel? Plus you never specified the ingredients in said product, so it may not even apply to what I am saying.

Yes the polyacrylate acid is a holding agent too. So? That doesn't take away from the fact that TEA is helping to increase the viscosity as well, and is also contributing to the hold in this gel. Why would we assume that only one ingredient is relevant to the hold? Plus the one furthest down the list? If I had a gel that contained only water and aloe vera gel, vs a gel that had water, aloe vera gel, marshmallow root and burdock root, does that mean that the aloe vera being a holding agent makes the fact that the other extracts are holding agents irrelevant? Plus many gels are 80% water. But why is it that KCCC didn't give me bald spots and all the gels I had tried with TEA did? No, the other ingredients in the formulation are still having their effect and contributing the the behavior of the gel and its effect on your hair.

When it comes to products mentioning it is 80% water means nothing. Even relaxers can contain but 2% lye. But that is still the active agent. And even if it was a .5% lye relaxer, if I walked around with it on my hair all day and did not rinse it out until the morning, and kept reapplying it, that obviously would cause accumulative damage as well despite being so mild.




Posted By: aharri23
Date Posted: Sep 11 2014 at 8:40pm
Hey pinke quick question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elGyAigTM5A

According to this video you can make a hair gel with only water, carbomer and TEA. Why is the
polyacrylate acid needed? Is TEA still bad even without the polyacrylate acid? They only used 2-3 drops of TEA.

I ask this because I want to start making my own products and I wanted to know if I can use a small amount of TEA without anyone having problems. Also I really need help figuring out other ingredients to put in my hair gel. Is there anyway we can do a skype conversation?


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Sep 14 2014 at 9:06am
Originally posted by aharri23 aharri23 wrote:

Hey pinke quick question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elGyAigTM5A

According to this video you can make a hair gel with only water, carbomer and TEA. Why is the
polyacrylate acid needed? Is TEA still bad even without the polyacrylate acid? They only used 2-3 drops of TEA.

I ask this because I want to start making my own products and I wanted to know if I can use a small amount of TEA without anyone having problems. Also I really need help figuring out other ingredients to put in my hair gel. Is there anyway we can do a skype conversation?
I wouldn't deal with TEA at all. I have worked ecostyler gel to bits. To the point where I only put a small amount and mixed it with sheabutter and olive oil and conditioner. Even though the hold was nearly non-existant for the gel, it still gave me baldspots. No matter how much I diluted it, the baldspot kept getting noticably bigger and more hair strands around the area would all of a sudden become half as long with out shedding. There are ways to make gel and you don't need TEA you can just use carbomer.

In my searching and trialing during that time I came across a gel that had sodium carbomer in it as the second ingredient and it didn't cause me any breakage.This was a time where I was buying a lot of gels and trying to see whether I could use it. I still have it, the proclaim styling gel with argan oil. (I snagged this picture off the internet of the inside of the container)

http://questfortheperfectcurl.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wpid-20120205_173540.jpg

It is also a cloudy opalecent gel, looking past the color it is not completely see through or crystal clear like the wetline and ecostyler and even fruit of the earth aloe gel(which I have used before btw and it did cause thinning and hair strands in the area started getting shorter with out signs of shedding). I wouldn't recommend the proclaim though, since it does have other drying ingredients and the hold sucked. But there are plenty of ways to make gel with out the use of TEA. The poly acrylate acid is contained with in the carbomer. TEA cannot be used in hair products period with out something to neutralize the ph.


Posted By: naturallyme247
Date Posted: Sep 14 2014 at 7:59pm
@pinkecube Damn girl! You know your stuff!


Posted By: TariTari
Date Posted: Sep 17 2014 at 5:40pm

My hair cannot handle humectant gels (glycerin, agave, honey) nor can it do aloe based gels, which limits my gel options extremely. I also prefer the convenience of having a ready made gel instead of cooking one. After researching more about TEA and weighing that information against my personal experience with it (no problems), I decided to go back to using a gel that contains TEA.

This is the only MHM "no no" ingredient that I'm using and despite that, I'm still seeing improvement and max hydration in my hair.

I think this something that individuals should consider for themselves. Do the research, decide if you're willing to try it, and test it out.

Like I said before, my hair has had zero negative effects since I started using a TEA gel years ago. It was easier to go back to using something that worked rather than continue spending money, looking for that elusive, natural, MHM approved, humectant free gel that could perform the same way.



Print Page | Close Window