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Wash and gos dont work on Nappy hair

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Category: Natural Hair Care
Forum Name: Natural Hair Care
Forum Description: General Discussions on Natural Hair Care
URL: http://Forum.BlackHairMedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=368716
Printed Date: Dec 13 2017 at 1:53pm


Topic: Wash and gos dont work on Nappy hair
Posted By: pinkecube
Subject: Wash and gos dont work on Nappy hair
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:46am
There was a video put on youtube called, "Wash and gos don't work on Nappy Hair". Its a parody music video, and it unfortunetly reflects the mindset of a lot of kinky haired girls. My comment that i posted on that video is below:   


I don't care if i get called a "natural hair nazi" for saying this, but you don't really know what you're talking about. Not that it is your fault, a lot of naturals and non naturals don't seem to understand this either, and they are also learning from ppl who dont fully understand this. We need to STOP listening to all these youtubers telling us our hair hates what it actually needs and we need to start figuring out what our hair needs. What im about to say is some very important information, so pls take advantage of it-- that goes to anyone who sees this comment.    

Let's start with the word "nappy". now dont expect this to be some rant about how the word nappy can be offensive, and blah blah. thats not what this post is about. this post is going to give tangible and useful advice and resources about how to help your hair. kay.    

"Nappy" hair equates to frizzy, dry hair. In this sense you are correct, wash and gos wont necessarily come out defined, or "work on nappy hair". A lot of naturals are under the misconception that "nappy" or "frizzy" hair is a hair type (ie. 4c, 4b, 4a, and even 3c). This is incorrect, and a lot of us are not taking advantage of an extremely important aspect to our haircare that needs to be addressed, and mastered, because we believe our hair is just supposed to be frizzy and dry, like moisture isn't something we adjust in our regimines techniques and products, but we are supposed to just accept our dry hair as being dry and do nothing to manage it. this is partially because many of us still do not understand how our hair works, what our hair wants, and that are hair may not like certain products, and basically dont know how to get moisture into their hair shaft.

lets rearrange our thinking first. Frizzy, dry hair is not a hair type. It is a CONDITION of the hair that can be combatted and overcome by building up the moisture retention levels in your hair shaft to eventually reach MAXIMUM CURL HYDRATION. (Not moisture overload) Essentially, "nappy" hair can and does effect everyone, no matter the curl type/size. It is mainly the porosity and tightness of your curls that determine the level of frizziness, and how sensitive your hair is to products and practices that take/prevent moisture from getting in the hair shaft. These variables can be controlled, basically by being aware of what your hair does and doesnt like.

Everyone, no matter the curl size, type, initial dryness, frizziness level, and porosity can get maximumly hydrated hair.   And this is the part where you and many other naturals especially tightly curled ones (yes, ur hair is curly, thats why u have shrinkage) are ironically miseducated and unaware of. Curly hair LOVES wash and gos. Not only that, but it they are one of the best things you can do to overcome "nappy" hair. Now dont stop reading yet, bc this is a Serious breakthrough i am going to provide you if ur lucky enough to get this far.   

Yes, ALL natural hair loves wash and gos. Specifically, the curly girl method, aka the CG method. The irony is, the nappiest hair will benefit the most from the cg method and wash and gos, as our hair starts off with the lowest moisture retention levels, and the most dryness and coarseness. A lot of naturals who call their hair 4a/b/c also have low porosity hair, and they dont realize just how sensitive their hair is to drying products and factors. An example of that, is if you find that youre doing a wash and go and have excessive of white residue that takes a long time to disappear, its likely your hair shaft isnt absorbing the moisture at all. Why? Bc you have low porosity hair and your cuticles are shut tight majority of the time.   

Anyway, not gonna get to deep into specific techniques(ie warming conditioner), because im going to direct you to a few youtubers who have literally TRANSFORMED their "nappy" hair into maximumly hydrated curls that pop. Not "looser curls". HYDRATED curls. They can pop and still remain unalterted in shape and curlsize(not counting factors like hair length increasing size of curls overtime) and be defined to the point where even without any product your curls can pop from root to tip. Not lying.

The curly girl method is the perfect method for naturally curly hair, and therefore wash and gos are the perfect method for curly hair. The cg method builds up moisture retention levels in the hair overtime until you reach max hydration. The amount of time that takes can be impaired like i said before by practices and products that steal moisture from the hair and dont allow it in. Another example is lowporosity hair hates drying proteins, heavy butters, glycerin, and most things that close or coat the cuticle including cold water and silicones. Your hair definetly does not like ecostyler gel. Aside from that max hydration could be acheived from a week to a month once youve perfected your regimine. Luckily your experimentation can be shortcutted below--   

YOUTUBERS THAT HAVE TRANSFORMED THEIR kinky HAIR
by using the curly girl method and idenifying properly and getting rid of drying factors:

danabnatural 

aketafitgirl

curlykelz


The first two youtubers give a lot of valuable information about their regimines, what products and techniques they use, and their journeys to max hydration and healthy hair.    

Btw, another misconception ppl have about "nappy" hair is that when you do wash and goes, your hair has a higher propensity to get knots. In actuality, twist outs and braidouts can do more harm than a proper wash and go in that sense. akedafitgirl explains that at the end of her video, "gel in natural hair and styling preference". this is not to suggest that you cant do those styles, or that you cant go for a fluffier, voluminous, and afro look. the whole point of this is to show that with max hydration, it will just be a style preference, not something you feel forced to do because you have no choice and cant manage your hair. max hydration increases managability of hair immensely, to the point where you can actually improve the results of your setting styles, make them last longer because they wont be losing moisture as quickly, and at that point you wont get as many tangles and knots when it comes time to detangle. what im stressing is reach max hydration first b4 doing those styles.    

Anyway, kinky hair girls, take the time to learn more truths about your hair and what it needs. Youll be surprised in the misconceptions you had and the changes that will take place with an open mind.    

Goodluck and sorry this was so long (i might post this on a natural hair forum too. More ppl need to see this. Its time to debunk this myth that too many naturals are falling for based on their prejudices and misconceptions about their hair)



Replies:
Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 10:33am

When they naturals say their hair was " TRANSFORMED" by curly girl technique, they do not mean it changed from 4c to curly hair. They are saying  something more along the lines of it becoming more healthy. A KINK can NOT look like a curl just by defining it. It will still be a defined kink. In order to get a kink (4a/b/c) to be a curl (3a/b/c), you need to slightly loosen the texture AND define it more as well.. So something along the lines of a mild texlax. The curly  girl techniques DO NOT LOOSEN THE CURL PATTERN AT ALL. In fact they tighten them a little bit. 


In order to try to achieve what you're trying to do to get a wash n go with 4 type hair you will have to loosen the texture some with a natural texlax. Using Bragg Liquid Aminos in the Cherry Lola treatment is one techniques that helps a little. Another is doing a Coconut LIME treatment EVERY TIME before you co wash or cleanse your hair 
See below

CoconutDiscover this technique of temporarily elongate and define natural hair with no damage to the hair structure

If you have natural black hair chances are that you are already in love with your texture and wouldn’t change it for the world. As well it should be!

But like anyone else, you don’t mind the occasional bout of ‘the grass is greener on the other side’ and would like to change your look temporarily.

If you have natural very curly/kinky hair, particularly 4a/b hair types, you will appreciate that it will take more heat to get ‘relaxer straight’ results when you  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=flat%20iron&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - flat iron  your hair.

The downfall of using too much heat on your hair is that it may damage it irreparably i.e. burn it straight! Nobody wants to risk the health of their hair for the sake of straight locks for a week. An alternative is required.

This is where the coconut and lime ‘relaxer’ could help you. The ‘straightening’ effect achieved is most noticeable in slightly wavy hair.

In African American (black) hair, the results are more subtle and with continued application, it results in loosening or elongating the curl pattern which makes heat styling much easier.


This technique is by no means new; it has been used for years by Asian women to straighten their curly hair safely without the use of chemicals.

The original recipe involves mixing coconut juice with the lime juice and leaving in the fridge overnight until a cream forms on top. This cream is then applied to the hair and left for a few hours then rinsed off. The remainder of the mixture is then discarded.

The main issue with this recipe is that even though the coconut milk with solidify slightly when put in the fridge, the natural heat from your body once applied to the hair will make it runny again and you may find that a lot of the treatment will end up running down your face and neck! Another problem is the wastage involved as only a small percentage of the coconut milk is being used.

The recipe below is a version of the original allowing both for the dryness of natural black hair with minimum wastage of the ingredients.  Here’s how to make the treatment:

1 tin of coconut milk

2 tablespoons of extra virgin  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=olive%20oil&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - olive oil

4 tablespoons of lime juice

2-3 tablespoons of cornstarch



LimeMethod

Empty the coconut milk into a saucepan add the extra virgin  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=olive%20oil&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - olive oil  and whisk until well blended.

Coconut milk varies in consistency by brand so depending on how thin the mixture in the saucepan is, add 2-3 tablespoons in a separate bowl and mix this with the lime juice until the mixture is lump free then add to the coconut milk &  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045TKI90/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0045TKI90&linkCode=as2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - olive oil  mixture.

Put the saucepan over a medium heat whisking constantly. The purpose is not to cook the mixture but to activate the cornstarch which will thicken the mixture to a ‘conditioner’ type consistency.

This should take a couple of minutes. If you find the mixture is still too thin then add a bit more cornstarch or if you get a brand of coconut milk that that is very thick to begin with, you may omit the corn starch altogether.

Apply the mixture to your hair in sections to ensure it is evenly covered. Cover with a plastic cap then under a steam cap for ½ hour to an hour.

If you don’t have a steam cap but you have a  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=hooded%20hair%20dryer&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - hooded dryer ,  http://www.blackhairinformation.com/hair-treatments-and-recipes/steam-hair-without-a-steamer/" rel="nofollow - read this article on how to give your hair a steam treatment without a steam cap.

Depending on the length and thickness of you hair, the mixture will be enough for 1-2 applications. Place any remaining treatment into a plastic jar/container and freeze until you require it next.

Proceed to shampoo the mixture out of your hair thoroughly then proceed to deep condition as usual with an ultra  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=moisturizing%20conditioner&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - moisturizing conditioner . Remember, the final rinse should be done with cold/lukewarm water to close the hair cuticles and seal in the moisture.

Roller set your hair with only a  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=s%20curl%20moisturizer&tag=2631-20&index=aps&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325" rel="nofollow - glycerin containing product like S Curl  along with some  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=heat%20protectant&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - heat protectant  for the softest results. Sit under a dryer for up to 90 minutes or until the hair is thoroughly dry. To complete the look  http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=aps&keywords=flat%20iron&linkCode=ur2&tag=2631-20" rel="nofollow - flat iron  the hair in sections with one swipe on a medium heat (you will not need much heat to get your hair straight). Style as desired.

http://www.blackhairinformation.com/hair-care-2/hair-treatments-and-recipes/the-coconut-and-lime-treatment-for-natural-black-hair/" rel="nofollow - http://www.blackhairinformation.com/hair-care-2/hair-treatments-and-recipes/the-coconut-and-lime-treatment-for-natural-black-hair/

Do not expect to see your texture transformed the first time you use this. If you are in the 4s, you will have to do this before EVERY WASH for at least a month or two to see any noticeable change. And then you will have to continue doing it as a part of regular maintenance if you want to keep it looser.

I totally disagree with the article about flat ironing  hair that you've put glycerin in. That will FRY the hair because glycerine does not allow the hair to dry. So ignore that part at the end about flat ironing it if you are going to put glycerin in it. Do one or the other. But the Cherry Lola Treatment combined with the Coconut LIME treatment outlined above will help you to elongate and define your kinks into somewhat of a curl so you can do a wash and go as you would like. Results are very subtle on tight 4b/c hair so you will need to do it every wash to eventually see some loosening into curls. But again the curly girl technique will not turn kinks into curls. In fact, her technique is designed mainly for white women with slightly curly hair who want to make it TIGHTER or nappier.


Posted By: NARSAddict
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 10:57am
I don't think wash and go is only exclusive to those of a looser curl pattern at all.  But for me wash and gos aren't ideal for me.  I hate having wet hair and it seems to make my hair more tangled but I do not discourage anyone trying it.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 11:40am
i dont particularly agree that cherry lola treatments "loosen" the hair texture. what happens is the baking soda lifts the cuticle temporarily to allow better absorption of moisture into the hair. its the fact that the moisture can more readily get into the hair shaft that you can reach higher moisture retention with this diy treatment. but it does NOT change your natural curl pattern or curl size in anyway. it does help eliminate frizz that prevents curls from popping. adding these treatments along with a cg Regime will even further transform your hair. but there is no such thing a loosening your curl pattern in regards to moisture. you hair can appear loosened, due to increased weight of hair from length and products, but it is not actually altered in structure. pls do check out the you tubers(danabnatural, akedafitgirl, rachaelcpr, and curlykelz) i mentioned. their hair is very moisturized and their tight coils, curls and zigzags get definition even without product, because they have built up the moisture retention in there hair and have max hydration.

also, pls dont purport glyceryn to be good for every zigzag/coil's hair. a lot of naturals with this hair type cannot tolerate glycerin. in their hair. especially if they live in a dry climate or use it during the winter, glycerin is one of those factors that you have to identify because it can be preventing increased moisture retention in lowporosity zigzag, or coiled hair. same goes with coconut oil kr coconut milk, if you are protein sensitive your hair could be drying out faster from use.

cherry lola treatments are okay, bc yogurt is a light protein. however, for increased moisture you can follow this recipe: (i will edit it in asap) basically it combines both the cherry lola treatment and caramel treatment. your hair feels incredibly soft upon rinsing out, and of course you dont have to include egg in the ingredriendients but it did not effect my personal results of extremely noticable hydration that HAS indeed lasted.

@Narsaddict

i also wanted to mention, the reason ppl have single strand knots and tangles in wash and gos, is because their hair isnt properly clumped. clumping come easily and automatically one max hydration is reached. to the point where even without product, your hair, even 4c can have noticeable definition. if you find you have a lot of sections that arent clumping together into organized curl units, those hairs are at risk of tangling, and that is simply another result of dry hair. pls watch aketafitgirl's video, gels in natural hair and styling preference, and rachaelcpr's tangle free wash and go hair.



^she explains it at the end of her video.






Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:31pm
@ladyaradia
i'm going to address the last sentence in your paragraph, because this is why so many naturals are and stay deceived.  tight curls are NOT equivalent to nappy hair. tight/zigzag curls are a curl pattern/type, nappy hair is a condition of dryness and frizziness in the hair that occurs when your hair shaft is not recieving or not recieving enough moisture. the basis of the curly girl method is the best strategy you can do to improve hydration in your curls. the 1 to two week dehydrated styles are not going to do the best to benifit these extremely dry course hair conditions, and ziggy coiled hair types. this is even if you spritz your hair. it is NOT ENOUGH. YOU NEED TO REWET YOUR HAIR AT LEAST EVERY 3 DAYS. also your regimines should not be based off of getting a particular curl pattern or style, your priority should be to get moisture retention levels as high as possible, and THEN you can do all those styles with more ease.

I put this in big letters because until naturals understand and accept this fact, they are going to be blocking themselves off from beneficial haircare and regimens.
you said something along the lines of, the curlygirl method is design mainly for white women, and will not work for tightly coiled hair. you also said the curly gurl method will make tightly coiled hair tighter. lastly, i wanted to address the comment you made about cherry lola treatments not noticeably working on 4c hair. i'm going to be very thorough with my explanations in this now because i believe i was giving too vague an idea of what i was talking about which is why you misconstrued it with some of your presumptions. It's time to step away from these presumptions and consider what i'm saying, because this will change the lives of many tightly coiled and zigzaged natural's hair. and please read this with an open mind, because there are sooo many misunderstandings with WHY our hair does what it does, and it needs to be corrected. like i said b4, check out danabnatural, aketafitgirl rachaelcpr and curlykelz on youtube. a visual example about just how dramatic the cg methods effects are on kinky hair will help debunk a lot of the myths you've been going by as fact.

in a way you are both wrong and right. everyone's hair is different, and following the curly girl method straight from devachan products and sight is not going to work for most kinky naturals. but too many people are brainwashed that looser curl pattern automatically means moisturized silky hair. I've seen enough natural with big loose curls that still look nappy to know that means nothing. people have to find the products that work for their hair, to make the cg method work for them. this is why i directed you to kinkycoiled low porosity youtubers who used to have "nappy hair" but transformed their hair with consistent cg regimines and by making the cg method work for them.  don't assume what i mean, just look at their channels and see for yourself how their hair as evolved overtime, as their methods, and regimens evolved.

 a lot of naturals have not succeded with the curly girl method, simply because they have not IDENTIFIED and ELIMINATED products and factors from their regimen that their hair did not benefit from. this is taking a significant amount of the moisture impact away fromn their hair. No matter what type of treatments you put on your hair, you wont get the benefit until you change the parts of your regimine that are taking away moisture and replace them with products that dont do that.  its more than just hair feeling soft. hair can feel soft but have no springback or moisture. moisture NEEDS to be in the hair shaft to get definition. this is NOT about loosening curls, this is about revealing the curls you have underneath all the frizz. this is a major roadblock for naturals who wont face this and find themselves having inconsistent success or no sucess at all in your hair journeys.

pls, watch this:




it explains that there are factors that take away moisture in your low porosity hair. im GIVING you these factors on a platter, there is a lot involved that alot of naturals dont think about. but then they dont expect their hair to curl or show any sign of moisture, and think its alright based only on one factor, which is softness. you hair needs the most water.

FACTORS THAT DRY OUT THE HAIR include over stretching the amount of time you keep styles in. this causes the dryness, tangles, etc. aketafitgirl talks about this on youtube.

another factor is protein. you've got protein gels, conditioners and ignorant and excessive use of protein, when many low porosity hair girls just DO NOT NEED IT. the worse part is they dont realize that using products with protein often closes and blocks the cuticle for you. even when a low porosity girls hair cuticle is open it isnt that wide. protein-- that includes hydrolyzed wheat protein (which is in a lot of gels 4c girls, whos hair has the lowest porosity, use religiously and then wonder why their hair is dry), coconut oil, silk proteins, etc. some people cant even handle the protein in aloe vera juice (not that they know) and then wonder why their hair feels moisturized at first, then dries out quickly, they cant retain styles, they have frizz, and chronically dried out hair. this is because you all are not getting rid of these products.

another thing that takes away from moisture in the shaft/prevents it from getting it is the PH of treatments and products you are using. some ppls hair likes acv rinses. some ppl do not benefit from that. acv cleanses the hair which is important, to get buildup off that scalp and hair that hinders moisture, but it can also be unnecessary because it closes the hair cuticle. there are other cleanses like bentonite clay rinses that can get that the dirt off your hair, not strip moisture, and not close the cuticle. that way when you rinse it out later, you hair can actually get hydrated from rinsing. this is what danabnatural on youtube did. her hair changed from nappier, frizzier and chronically dry CONDITION, to a silkier, moisturized condition. but her curl structure in NO WAY has loosened. This is because like i said before, Nappy hair is a CONDITION of hair, not a curl pattern or hair type.

Your propensity to get frizz are effected by how easily your hair loses moisture, but it is possible to build up those levels of moisture and retain it over time. This will in turn, eliminate frizz and chronic dryness, increase the manageability and softness of your hair, and give you optimal hair health. That's right, as you reach maximum hydration your hair will be extremely easy to manage, detangling and EVERYTHING. this is because EVERY ASPECT IS CONTROLLED BY MOISTURE. The science of black hair in combination with the curly girl method will help you identify things that you need to do in your regimen to make the curly girl method work for you. It in no way has to be complicated, once you have the information you need, perfect your regimen, and get these inaccurate ideas out of your head it is very simple concepts. its the same curls, just now you can see them VERY clearly, her hair has bounce, shake and weight to it, which is a completely different state from what it was before.

another thing that steals moisture is your general cg rules, sulfates, silicones, and denatured alcohol. duh. aubrey organics has changed their formula and it now included denature alcohol. danabnaturals noticed the drying effect of it on her hair.

i cant finish this whole post yet, bc i need to head out real quick. part 2 will b later



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 12:37pm
@narz i replied to your comment.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 23 2014 at 2:08pm
Here are before an after videos of chronically dry naturals that i mentioned are available on youtube:

DANABNATURAL

BEFORE:



AFTER MAXIMUM CURL HYDRATION:


AKETAFITGIRL

BEFORE MAX HYDRATION



AFTER MAXIMUM HYDRATION:



HERE IS CURLY KELZ (4C HAIR)







her hair's condition is not some special hair type. her hair type is the size of her curls, and she refers to herself as fractile 4c. her hair was typical 4c hair before-- dry, difficult to manage, etc. Her hairs condition is well hydrated, and it is an acheivable look for anyone. Her regime isnt perfect, but just adopting basic aspects of the cg method, and identifying some if not most of the drying factors of her hair has greatly improved her hair's health


Posted By: liesnalibis
Date Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 6:23am
I agree that video was ignorant and that girl didn't know how to care for her hair properly. Being a 4c she expected to do what a 3b does (or not even that much) and get the same results that 3b curls would. In short, she should have taken smaller sections and had reasonable expectations for how her hair would turn out. 

I would have to read the rest of your comments on maximum hydration more closely to speak intelligently on them.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 12:19pm
I was unable to edit the post from up top, but the caramel-lola treatment is as follows:

Ingredients:
Greek yogurt (2 cups)
Baking soda (2 tbsp)
Organic apple cider vinegar (2 tbsp)
Raw coconut aminos(or just regular aminos, but i personally didn't like soy in my hair) (2 tbsp)
Raw honey (1/2 tbsp)
Unsulfured molasses (1 tbsp)
Half an over ripe plantain or banana
Avocado (3/4 tbsp)
1 egg (optional)

blend the ingredients in your blender.
saturate your dry (but detangled) hair completely from root to tip with the mixture.
put a shower cap and let sit for 1.5-2 hours.
Rinse out completely with warm/hot water.
co wash with botanical/cg friendly conditioner. ( whatever you wash your hair with will be absorbed into the hair shaft, so no silicones, parabens, sulfates, drying denatured alcohol)
apply more conditioner but leave it in.
seal with botanical gel

I believe this treatment can be done as frequently as every 2 weeks.



Posted By: femmemuscleisback
Date Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 7:43pm
The regimen that Mahogany Curls and the other ladies are speaking of: Maximum Hydration is interesting.

I watched some of the videos, and had to rewind on some of them to take notes.

Co wash first

1/2 and 1/2 of ACV and water
(spritz sections of hair keep on for up to 60 mins.) w/shower cap on.

Conditioner in 4 sections (detangle work from root to tip) Rinse

(Deep Condition on the Weekends with Conditioner of choice) Rinse

Apparently, the youtuber loves Terressentials.

add leave in conditioner

styling product (Kinky Curly Custard) preference.

So i guess it's the ACV for 1 hour that truly opens up the shaft, lets the conditioner in, and moisturizes the hair shaft?

To be honest, i like what the ladies are saying, but MAN, they are all over the place.  Even some of the youtube comments are saying: Just get to the point, there's waaay to much talking. Specifically a Mahogany Curls video.

I know they are excited.. and happy.  It's an absolute break through just hearing about this.

I absolutely believed that 4c hair was only meant for bunning, and that's it.




Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 24 2014 at 11:13pm
femmemuscleisback
 SmileBig smile
im so glad you had a revelation from this post and found interest in these videos, and am glad you took the time to post the summary you did. goodluck on your cg journey


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Feb 25 2014 at 10:13am
I thought i'd add another quick tip from my own personal experience. Baking soda treatments-- specifically danabnatural's suggestion of mixing conditioner and baking soda, do help open the cuticle. But, depending on the level of ph your hair needs, you may find your hair gets frizzy after doing so. This is the same with acv rinses. If you feel your hair is particularily dry after doing either one of those rinses, that is simply a sign the ph of your hair is unbalanced.

simply rebalance the hair ph by doing a treatment of the opposite ph.

So if your hair is frizzy after a baking soda rinse, do and acv rinse to balance out the hair, and vice versa. I did this and the frizz I was experiencing not only disappeared, I had root to tip definition on the coursest of my hair, even though I only had conditioner and olive oil in it, which was rinsed out for the most part when I poured the acv and water mixture into my hair.

Just something to keep in mind, although I gave good resources, don't forget you need to experiment with your hair and figure these things out by experience. Use these videos as a guideline of what you should experiment with, but also observe how your hair reacts to it


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Feb 28 2014 at 11:56am
This might help too. This is The Tightly Curly Method by Teri LaFlesh. With this method you can use conditioning, and smoothing silicone emollient conditioners and get the same effect.

I think a conditioner or Eco Styler gel with OILs added and with vegetable glycerine added will produce the best results. I think that castor oil with olive oil is a good oil mix. Add Vegetable glycerine to that and some eco styler gel for a winning formula to do the Culy Like Me Tightly Curly Method. And best of all, if you like smoothing silicone conditioners like Silicone Mix and Kanechom or other Dominican conditioners, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP with this natural method. You do not have to take them out with sulfate shampoos either on Afro hair. You can KEEP your silicone fillers to fill weak spots on the strands and KEEP THEM THERE doing their job!  They help with length retention in the same way that protein and lawson dye from Henna also help to keep the strands on your head by protective coating so you can grow long hair! So just feel free to co wash and dont try to remove the protective silicone coatings from the strands. They are meant to STAY THERE as protective fillers to smooth damaged raised cuticles which are weak spots where your hair would BREAK without them.
Again this is the method of author Teri LaFlesh who wrote Curly Like Me



Tightly Curly Method  on 4C hair with Eco Styler
 gel. 

Again, would be better with castor oil and olive oil along with vegetable glycerine  along with Eco Styler gel.  Another option for those with different tastes and a different point of view.

To maintain with the Tightly Curly Method, you oil and braid your hair at night and cover with a satin bonnet. So you have the elongating effect of braid outs as well. You can even maintain this look with oil, flat twists at night and a satin scarf
MOST importantly, I DO think the Curly Girl method by Ms Massey WAS invented with WHITE WOMEN in mind. The application to Black hair was an after thought add on ticket item. In contrast, Terri LaFlesh is a biracial Black woman who discovered this method out of the challenges of learning to deal with her own hair. So it was written first and foremost for US. Furthermore, Teri LaFlesh's method has allowed her hair to grow down BELOW HER BUTT...even with soothing, smoothing silicone emollient conditioners. With shrinkage it is still below waist length. So this method promotes LONG HAIR GROWTH for African Americans. Some methods and products are inherently better for White hair. Others methods and products are inherently better for Afro or Biracial hair.
Happy Hair Growing.




Posted By: liesnalibis
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 6:29am
^^^I have that book. It's a great book. I highly recommend it over the Curly Girl book.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 10:52am
Ladyaradia, thank you for taking the time to post this information, but

the youtubers danabnaturals and akedafitgirl have both read the tightly curly book. they have also read the science of black hair, hair care rehab and the curly girl method, and incorperate certain aspects into their regimines. the basis of cg method has worked for them the most. i wouldnt cut myself off to only the tightly curly method, just because the cg method is thought to be only for white women. both methods recommend products that some naturals cant handle. i know my hair hates glycerin, heavy butters silicones, and protiens like hydrolyzed wheat protein. diva curl products may also not be thick enough or moisturizing enough for certain ppl's hair. i already addressed this. it isnt about the products, its the basis of the cg method, which is to introduce moisture into you hair FREQUENTLY. this is why i constantly said make this method work for your hair. when i say work for your hair, i mean discover the products your hair likes. no where did i say, go out and buy diva curl products. in fact none of the youtubers i showed use divacurl products. they just follow the guidelines of the cg method, and it has helped them.

 i honestly disagree with the tightly curly method, simply because she recommends the use of products that have worked for her hair. they do not work on everyones hair, and you have to find out what products your hair likes. everyones hair likes water. but you cant say everyones hair likes glycerin, heavy oils, silicones, etc. if you find those products help you achieve more hydration, thats fine. at that point you would probably need drying sulfates to wash your hair, because sulfates are the only thing that can remove silicones. for some, that will strip the moisture in their hair more than it will help them retain and build up maximum hydration. if you avoid silicones and sulfates, you can use less drying products to cleanse your hair, like bentonite clay rinses, and acv rinses.

danabnaturals for example has low porosity hair. dont be fooled by the video with her having maximumly hydrated hair, if you watch her other videos, you can see the actual progression of her hair. she considered her hair to be 4c and it wasnt until she looked at the drying factors of all her products; protein, silicones, denatured alchols, sulfates, etc. that she started having that more moisturized look. the same wth aketafitgirl. the only thing that she was able to take from the tightly curly method, was to be heavy handed with her conditioner. The science of black hair in combination with the curly girl method seems like a better choice. another good book is haircare rehab by audrey davis, aketafitgirl has gotten her cleansing method from this book.


the way i see it:

1. You use the science of black hair to help figure out how your hair works, your porosity, density, the way the hair cuticle behaves, and what products it likes, etc.

2. Then apply the cg method which is just FREQUENT wash and gos (frequent I mean, every 1-3 days.)which reintroduces moisture(water and conditioner) into the hair shaft, gentle cleansing methods that don't strip the hair, sealing in the moisture with gel, and avoiding products that take away from your hair's moisture retention, or ability to receive moisture.

3. Tightly curly method for using thicker amounts of conditioner.

4. LOC/LCO/LCOC method if you find hair needs oil as an extra step before the gel.

5. And haircare rehab for good methods of more frequent cleansing (bentonite clay rinses, acv rinses, bakingsoda rinses)and frequent deep conditioning/steaming/Green house effect.

6. This applied altogether consistently in your regimine= maximum hydration


As for stretching, you can band your hair overnight in the way you want your hair to fall. I personally do two French rolls on either side of the top half of fresh wash and go into a half ponytail, and b4 bed take it out, it will be stretched but sticking up a bit. Then i tie a scarf so my hair can fall flatter, the next morning I fluff it out to unsmush it from my head (the curls are not flattened out or frizzed at all which is something I always used to suffer from with retwisting and rebraiding my hair)and I get the shape I want.


i recommend highly these youtubers (danabnatural, and aketafitgirl) specifically because they have tweaked the cg method to work for them, with these steps. they didnt force on their hair what it didnt like, they just used the basic cleanse hair frequently, and reintruduce moisture, (water and conditioner) then seal. you can seal with loc method, and apply gel over it, or just use gel. whatever you feel helps your hair retain moisture longer through out the day is the right method for you.

another tip I'd like to add is thorough application of product. This greatly effects how your hair turns out. Depending on the tightness of your curls, or thickness of your hair, parting smaller sections when applying every product is beneficial. You should know when your hair is properly and evenly coated on the hair from root to tip, by the amount of slip you feel as you are smoothing the section, this applies to both conditioner and gel.


Posted By: exceedinggrace
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:08pm
I've been following this topic and reading into it for a few days, (and going to the youtubers you suggested) and put it to the test myself this morning. Well actualy overnight and this morning.

What I did was before going to bed, I did the acv rinse. I left it on for maybe 50 minutes and rinsed it out. Then I put conditioner on my hair thoroughly in sections put a shower cap over my head and deep conditioned overnight.

In the morning, I detangled and washed out the conditioner. I didn't have bentonite clay or terresentials, so i just used some organic clay that i had used as a face mask before. I did the mixture with honey, olive oil, and warm water. then i let it sit for 15 minutes and washed it out.

after that I put my leave in conditioner. (I use trader joes tea tree tingle as both my leave in and cowash) I raked a lot conditioner, first sectioning small layers of hair, moving from my nape upward.

Then i did the same with gel. (I used kccc) I applied the gel like akedafitgirl said, until I got slip. When I finshed, I shook my hair.

Now, Let me say first of all, these are the best results i've ever gotten in my wash and goes. I have never done an acv rinse or bentonite clay before, I would always just cowash and always have frizzed out wash and gos. I also have done the cherry lola treatment before which definetly helped my hair significantly, but this is like a whole new deal. I never thought i could have this kind of definition. i'm gonna try out your recipe to see if it works for me as well. Thank you so much for posting this, omg finally something that works for my hair! I'm gonna keep doing this, and may try alternating between acv rinses and baking soda rinses.


ClapClapClap


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:30pm
I also read the Curly Girl book today as well as The Tight Curly book. They are both good and both offer excellent tips and suggestions. In the end one should try both and see what works best for the individual.


Posted By: exceedinggrace
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

This might help too. This is The Tightly Curly Method by Teri LaFlesh. With this method you can use conditioning, and smoothing silicone emollient conditioners and get the same effect.

I think a conditioner or Eco Styler gel with OILs added and with vegetable glycerine added will produce the best results. I think that castor oil with olive oil is a good oil mix. Add Vegetable glycerine to that and some eco styler gel for a winning formula to do the Culy Like Me Tightly Curly Method. And best of all, if you like smoothing silicone conditioners like Silicone Mix and Kanechom or other Dominican conditioners, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE THEM UP with this natural method. You do not have to take them out with sulfate shampoos either on Afro hair. You can KEEP your silicone fillers to fill weak spots on the strands and KEEP THEM THERE doing their job!  They help with length retention in the same way that protein and lawson dye from Henna also help to keep the strands on your head by protective coating so you can grow long hair! So just feel free to co wash and dont try to remove the protective silicone coatings from the strands. They are meant to STAY THERE as protective fillers to smooth damaged raised cuticles which are weak spots where your hair would BREAK without them.
Again this is the method of author Teri LaFlesh who wrote Curly Like Me


I looked into some of the videos, and the one showing 4c is of hair that is transitioning, that defined look is clearly not from hydrated curls. Her latest videos, her hair looks nothing like that now, cause she cut the ends off. Also, aucurlsnaturalle has like 3 type hair. All the videos shown from pink had girls with much tighter textures.

 I have not tried the tightly curly method, but I know I am not putting glycerin, silicones, or ecostyler in my kinky coily 4b hair. Ecostyler makes my hair feel like cornflakes, no matter how much oil i put under it. I may put a tiny amount of castor oil under my kccc though. One of the youtubers pink linked on the post actually does the Loc method before applying gel.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 01 2014 at 11:16pm
@ Grace. I agree  gel does not touch my hair ever!  It makes it hard and break. I only put it on baby hairs.  But you know gel is the main ingredient in curly girl LOL  Gel is NOT a part of TC at all. A lot of 4 girls use ecostyler to smooth their texture, but I don't use gel at all.
 
Also, if you don''t like glycerine, you wont you deva curl curly girl's set it free... because its main ingredient is glycerine. LOL 

aucurlsnaturalle  is no sort of 3 texture. she is a fine haired 4 a/b. The last video shows her hair STRETCHED FROM A braid out. That is what you do at night with TC....braids.  That is why her hair looks close to a 3 in one video. Anyone's will look like that if they do a braid out and oil the following days. I am 3. her hair is no where near a 3  texture unstretched. Also,  that gray haired woman did not have loose hair. She has 4c hair but she also said in the video she did it on STRETCHED DRY HAIR. So she put the gel on stretched out 4c hair and the eco styler kept it smooth looking like a jeri curl though her hair is 4c when wet with water. So no I did not show women with loser hair. They were just using the TC styling system which involves braiding the hair at night which stretches it. Ultimately the gray haired lady used gel from cg and separation and smoothing from tc.  cg scrunching or balling up of hair  would have made her hair a literal matted mess. I think the smoothing and separating with gel on dry, stretched hair was about the only way for her 4c hair to get that jheri  curl look.   The gel was stronger than the conditioner that tc recommends. So I think what she did was ingenious. She just should have added some oil to the mix for better results imo. Hers was a combination of the 2 methods because she used gel like cg instead of just conditioner (tc).

I think most ladies will end up, like you, taking bits and pieces from all systems and mixing and matching what will work for their hair.

PS Pink  it is obvious you are biased in favor of cg you misquoted so many people and told so many untruths in your last post I won't even bother to respond to it. 
I personally see something good in BOTH books. Smile I just want to send some love the way of the Black author because  Blacks do so much self loathing that they abhor one another instead of supporting anything from anyone Black. As long as a White face is placed on it, the Blacks will come in groves supporting it  Ouch. Very sad but it is what it shamefully is.  I read the book by the White woman today (curly girl) I appreciate it for what it offered but I could not personally relate to very much she talked about with my hair at all.. She addressed mainly the needs of White women, which is FINE. I really could relate more with the experiences of Teri LaFlesh and her struggles with her tight hair. But I am objective enough to take bits and pieces  from both authors. Honestly about all I could take from the curly girl book was using hair clips as counter weights, or pin curls and to stand up the top for height. She also showed a lot of nice photos of curly hair.

In the final analysis, both authors REALLY ARE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THINGS!!! 
They both say :
  • cowash
  • leave in conditioner
  • no heat
  • appreciate your natural texture and work with your curls.
All good so far. But here is where the 2 systems differ:
TC just says air dry and you can use any products that work for your hair  
CG says use drying gels but no cones. (so which is worst: hardening, stiff gels which dry and break the hair or  conditioning silicones?)
CG also allows for damaging blow drying and TC does not.
Cg preaches to scrunch or ball up your hair. This would make 3s/4s tighter and more of a matted mess  if you followed it as they say to the letter. Ball up kinky hair with hardening gel on it and hit it with a blow dryer?... are you kidding me? Confused Kinky hair will do MUCH better with shingling and SMOOTHING than any kind of scrunching or balling up which can mat it. 
TC talks about smoothing, and separating with lots of conditioner until you see smooth definition. (shingling which is known to be effective for definition in afro hair)
 In view of all this, I guess it is now OBVIOUS why Teri LaFlesh has hair below her butt, while the white woman who wrote curly girl has ear length hair.  I will go with the classic  length hair and silicones thank you very much.

  There are only a few minor differences in their opinions.  So it boils down to who do you want to hear it from. LOL
Other than that:
  • Curly Girl is trying to impose volumizing, drying Caucasian styling techniques on already thick, dry Black hair.
  • While Tight Curly uses shingling which is known and proven to create definition in Black curls)
.Finally for night care:
  • Curly Girl I guess implies pineappling  and redoing it every morning 
  • Tight Curly recommends braids or twists at night to stretch and protect from tangling.  In the morning braid outs or twist outs with a little moisture/conditioner where needed.
OH, one last thing, the author of curly girls contradicts herself about not liking silicones because the brand of hair color she produces  and promotes is SILICONE BASED and full of many silicones.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 1:00pm
@ladyaradia wow, you managed to misconstrue everything i said. you know what, hopefully people will actually read what i wrote and the message i was trying to get across instead of grazing over the whole thing and jumping to racially charged assumptions. its like everything i just explained went over your head.

 if you want to block your self off to beneficial hair practices thats great, but please dont corrupt my message to be about buying divacurl products and heralding white women. the entire point of this point is to educate the neglected type 4b 4c and 4a hair group, our hair simply is the most dehydrated, and difficult to manage because of that. if you want to brush over it and force things on ppl that dont work for them, just because its the "real black way" please go to a different post. this is the exact kind of mindset i am confronting in this post.

no ones black hair is the same, and i am not recommending products. i am recommending an extremely valuable METHOD AND REGIMEN, and youtubers who have managed to reach maximum hydration in their naturally tightly coiled and course hair, which is rare to find, it isnt about white women or any of that. out of all the youtubers i mentioned, NONE of them use divacare products as their staple or in their regimines to max hydration. in fact, the products i did see were kccc, flaxseed gel, kinky curly conditioner, tresseme naturals, ect.

i'm done with the back and forth on this, i cant stand when you give all this good information and someone just misconstrues what your saying. if someone was grazing over this forum and read your comment, it could be enough for the whole message i put out to be invalidated, when it is clear not only do you not know what you are agruing against, but you didnt read or comprehend the majority of what i took my time to write. btw, all gel is not the same, and some people benefit from using gel. their are different types of gels one can use that will get the job done with out the added proteins and plastics in them. if youre dead set on what you think fine, this post is for people with an open mind.

@exceedinggrace. im so glad you took advantage of the information i put together. I agree ecostyler was really drying for the hair, its one of the drying factors i had to idenify and get rid of in my regimen. the gel is not botanical, and has ingredients like hydrolzyed wheat protien, which my low porosity hair hates. i avoid any product with that ingridient in it, my hair hates it. i see you use kccc, which is a better choice. thank you so much for writing your experience, taking the time to read all the information, and contibuting positively to this post.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 4:33pm
@exceeding grace

Btw, I forgot earlier but another tip for applying your kccc gel (but I've seen it work w/ other types of gel as well) is try smoothing the gel at the base of the hair section, almost like you would if you were doing a root touch up with hair dye. Then you smooth it down the hair strand so it isn't too thick at the roots, and proceed to smoothing and raking. That is a technique I've done and seen done and it really helps make sure the roots are properly sealed with the gel, for better definition.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 8:09pm
The Kccc alone will leave the hair hard as a brick and the shrinkage is too much. A solution is to  use an emollient  rich product first like Shea Moisture Curl enhancing smoothie and then apply the gel afterward if you must.


Posted By: exceedinggrace
Date Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 10:51pm
Thanks for the tip, pink. I will try doing that tomorrow. Big smileSmile
Today was my 2nd day wash and go and i was plsd with the results. My hair actually had movement! Usually when it's dry it doesn't have enough weight to it to shake or anything, lol. Guess the moisture is holding up in my hair. I just had to say this cause i was just so impressed by that.

Ladyarada, I am getting the feeling u have some personal disagreements with the cg method, and r going out of ur way 2 undermine almost every point pink has made in this forum message. bcuz of that, I understnd her fustration, as I think she's given more than enough backup 4 her view. I think this is a very helpful post, and we need to b able to appreciate that. So far all I see is arguing 4 arguement's sake, and alot of the alternative solutions u make r 1's i've tried time and time again, but didn't give me the moisture i was looking 4. I have had positive results with what pink is talking about, and I believe she better understands the perspective of kinkier hair textures like myself.

As 4 wat u said about kccc, I've never had a problem with it making my hair feel like a brick, or dry. This is the Exact reason i switched from eco styler to it. I also find that unlike eco, I don't necessarily need oil underneath, as it has a soft hold under conditioner, and my the second day my hair feels even softer. btw, shea butter and shea moisture products are another 1 of the things that give my hair 30 minute results, and then leave me with greasy straw like hair. If i was to use anything i'd probably try a tiiny bit of castor oil, to get a 2nd day feel on 1st day. But even then, I don't feel it's necessary 4 my hair. thx 4 the suggestion tho. Shrinkage? I've gotten it with every product and i don't see it as a negative thing. I see it as a sign of moisture.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 02 2014 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by exceedinggrace exceedinggrace wrote:


Ladyarada, I am getting the feeling u have some personal disagreements with the cg method, 
I am glad you got that message, you're right! I already posted on page 2 some of the problems I have with that methodology. I seriously doubt you know hair better than I do. I taught Cosmetology school and was a salon manager for over a decade. I did both Caucasian and Afro hair. I personally find the TC system to be a better option for wash and go's for Afro hair.  So YES!.
What I am sensing is you don't even want to try that system because you're hooked on the idea of "curly girl"  or maybe the word curly being associated w/ type 4 hair. That is your prerogative. Presenting more options and more information is a GOOD thing so that people can make an informed decision about their hair instead of just blindly swallowing a one size fits all approach.

I have learned in my years in hair that there is seldom a one size fits all answer to anything. Solutions must be tweaked for the individual for best results.
PS I actually think CG works good for MY hair (3b) and Caucasian hair when buffered with T C  techniques all mixed together into one blended methodogy and approach. I think it is a very bad approach for 4 type hair in general. Shingling and smoothing, which are Tight Curly approach, are a much better way of dealing with 4 hair.  Smoothing is even better for 3 hair usually. You only need scrunching for 2 and loose 3 hair usually.  Also, emollients like conditioner with oils or styling creams which can be used with LOC  are better for Black hair in general  than just gels of any sort alone. The exception would be a moisturizing gel. But even so, I think our hair thrives off of emollients. Caucasian hair is the one that benefits most from a diet of strictly gels because they need bulking up, lift and thickening that gels offer. Gels alone on Afro hair will ultimately lead to drying if emollient rich products are not added to the mix. That is where the Tightly Curly and the Curly Girl methods also differ. Tightly Curly method steers toward lipid and emollient rich nourishment for Black hair instead of steering toward drying gels. Yes there are some gels with emollients as you said, but the LOC method is better for our hair than trying to go strictly gel  of any sort imo. Also again, scrunching (from Curly Girl system) is usually not very necessary for Black hair. Separating curls individually and smoothing them with emollients is better for our hairs 3 and 4 alike.... and that is a Tightly Curly Methodology, and shingling curls. It is not Curly Girl. Here is a video on shingling our hair

This is the technique used on Black hair for many years. It is what you also do to your hair in the Tightly Curly Method and is not part of Curly Girl system. But it works on Black hair as a styling technique. Scrunching that cg advocates... not so much for our hair. It will encourage more tangles and matting as opposed to smooth popping curls.
Another thing, Curly Girl seems to preach that something must have dried out natural hair and if we work at it hard enough, we will one day be able to just use gels only instead of oils like some other hair types do. ( Drying gels are the main styling tool for Curly Girl) Our hair just IS naturally drier and for that reason gels aren't going to help it. LOC, emollients, oils and moisturizers Will help our hair. Gels can be included if they make you comfy, but our hair needs application of emollients and lipids instead of thinking we can some day produce them if we keep at it hard enough. Hair is DEAD once it's on your head. It is not going to start producing anything that it did not already. You need to apply the moisture and oils topically. Gels alone generally don't have much of either of these that our hair needs. In fact too much drying gel is generally counterindicated for our hair. Moisturizing and oil rich products are indicated for our hair
 
I hope you're following what I am saying. I am getting that for a lot of you cg is like Christ off of the cross and incarnated on earth which you blindly want to accept like a cult. But when you analyze it and really look at the techniques in its bible, the Tightly Curly system is more 3b-4c friendly than the products and styling techniques from Curly Girl. I get you just want to SAY, "hey I'm doing Curly Girl" and you're willing to alter its system however, as long as you can call it Curly Girl. At that point after you've modified cg to be more friendly to our hair, you may actually be doing something more like the the Tightly Curly method. But hey, if it helps you to get through your nights better if you can call it the Curly Girl system then go for it and do whatever makes you happy.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 8:56am
Lady Aradia, you are waaay too hung up over the fact I am calling this method curly girl. I am calling it curly girl because that's what the youtubers who I picked have called the methods they are doing.

You even said yourself, the tightly curly method is simply a modified version of the curly girl method is it not? But this modified method would have to be completely modified again to work for the group of naturals I am aiming this post at. The methods will always have to bend for what our hair needs are, no one's hair is the same, and I can't believe you are brushing over everything I wrote for some technicality you believe is there.

Do any of the youtube videos I put say anything about scrunching, divacurl products as staple, or even using harsh gels? Kinky hair can use gels and like aketafitgirl said, it's necessary because it helps keep the hair from tangling. Kccc is not drying to the hair, and their are other options of gels that aren't drying to the hair, if you find your hair feels crunchy b/c of aloe.(which is a protein, which you are apparently convinced every curly hair loves) I took the time to explain that a lot of the factors causing dryness is simply the products people use. You even damantly insist on protein treatments and heavy oils , and all these things that coat and build up on the hair and dry it out. I insist on the cg method b/c it's about embracing your curls, not trying to get them looser, the FREQUENT if not daily rehydration of the hair by gentle clarifying and addition of water and more botanical conditioners. Tightly curly method loves silicones, sulfates, heavy oils, and glycerin, you said it yourself unless I misread it. If these things were compatible with every black person's hair, we wouldn't be having these problems. And I identified these problems, and obviously they ring true for ppl who actually have the type of hair i'm aiming this at.

There is no such thing as hair getting "nappier" from putting water in it. If anything it's dehydrating your hair that causes nappiness. I have a mixture of type 4 hair, and I've been natural for 7 years. since when does being a hairstylist automatically make you an expert on 4b/4c hair? A lot of the problems with our hair are either shrouded in mystery or deemed 'unsolvable'. Hair stylists only recently got the know about our hair, it was the community of people who had our hair that needed to start figuring things out for themselves, before hairstylist jumped on the bandwagon.

Majority of my hair I would consider either 4b or 4c, with some 4a in the back that must be 3x as small as aucurlsnaturalle's supposedly "type 4" hair. before I adopted this method no amount of the typical advice you are giving did much for my hair. I did the twistouts that looked good for 3 days max b4 I started getting knots, dryness and and frizzing. I did a wide array of protective styles that seemed to dry out my hair and cause even more manipulation and build up as my hair builds up pretty quickly. I've used eco styler gel and hated it. Kccc and flaxseed gel did not take the moisture out of my hair. This isn't about loosening curls, this is about hydrated curls. And obviously hydration is the answer.

I have explained over and over again that I am not recommending products. I support the cg method because of the max hydration. At this point you are just shoving words into my mouth and running off on your own interpretations for everyone that disagrees with you.

What I hate the most is when hairstylists claim to know your hair better that you know your own hair and that is what you are doing. I don't get why you are making such a big deal about calling it curly girl method. It's like all the information i'm putting out here is just going through one ear and out the other. You keep talking as though there are these unequivacal rules about black hair, you can't use any gel at all ever cause only white people can use it, or ppl with looser curls. This here highlights your ignorance.

kccc is called "kinky curly curling custard" is it not? I'm showing actual examples of maximum hydration. yet I see no examples of reeeaaal tight course textures like mine actually transforming. Aucurlnatural clearly has majority type 3 hair. It is 3c. If her hair is type 4, then I must have type 5 hair. There is not one video post from you showing maximumly hydrated hair on someone with the 4a 4b 4c texture that I am talking about-- you are clearly on the side that supports that Nappy hair is a hair type. The video you showed has this woman just slapping gel on near dry hair. Her hair will probably dry out in 30 minutes. That is what's contributing to her nappiness (ie. dry, frizzy hair. frizz and nappiness is caused by lack of moisture, so how could you say that a method that tells you to hydrate your hair makes your hair nappier? It makes no sense.

If you're a hair stylist, I am hoping this is not the kind of advice you are giving to your kinkier coiled and zigzagged clients, as their hair is the type of hair that needs water and moisture the most. I've proved that with the resources I provided, and my explanation. Whereas you seem to be implying taking steps to care for our curls in a moisturizing way is somehow selfhate.

Do you know majority of type 4 naturals have already tried and done the things you are saying? Including the girl in the, "wash and goes don't work on nappy hair video". Obviously if the things you are talking about worked for her, she wouldn't have been so frustrated with the dryness and unmanagibility of her hair, and eventually she relaxed her hair. These are the kind of naturals OUR section in the natural community have to look up to, and only people with that type of hair who have experienced it and recovered from dry unmanageable hair should be the people we look to for advice. I cannot relate to aucurlsnaturalle's hair even if you sit down and insist that her hair is type 4. It doesn't and never has looked anything like mine, even without product.

What I hate the most is that you are not offering a different solution, you are the problem that I was addressing when I posted this post. I've come up with videos and everything PROVING this method improves hydration in the hair, and all you've wanted to do is prove you are right.

I'm getting a really condescending feeling with you saying we want to call it the curly girl method, as if this is something I just pulled out of thin air. You're acting like i'm calling twist outs and braid out the curly girl method. The curly girl method is wash and gos, and there's no strict rules saying you must only use divacurl products. The are plenty of naturals who don't use diva curl products, who still call their regimens curly girl. This is because majority of ppl understand cg to be frequent wash and goes to build up moisture levels in your hair. the TC method would be a back and forth between product buildup, and stripping my hair of moisture. I think It's time we looked at people who've experienced what i'm talking about and who have increased the manageability and moisture retention in their hair.

Please, take the time to read each point I make with out getting into your feelings. This is not a personal post against you, but it is a post disagreeing with the methods you are speaking of from the stand point of a 4b/4c natural. I don't like repeating points I have already made, so please don't read half of it and go off on another tangent when I've already thoroughly proved my points, gave visual examples and resources, and took the time to put all this together.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 9:17am
Pink you are making an inaccurate assumption that shingling and Tight curly methods do not involve hydration. Quite the contrary, both methods involve the same frequent co washing as curly girl. So stop making up lies.  No one ever said that water makes hair " nappier" you used quotes to imply they were my words and they are not. You apparently will lie anyway possible to promote this company. How long have you been their biggest advertiser? Are you on the payroll. You should be. Also I never said Tight Curly "is a version of Curly Girl" That would assume curly girl is the original and it is not. Natural gelled and lubricated wash and goes have been done on Black hair for MANY decades (centuries even) long before that company arrived in the last 10 years and tried to claim to invent it.   I was doing them on patrons 20 and 30 years ago in fact.

You say I did not offer a solution. That is a lie. I keep offering TWO solutions but you are too blind to read them... Tight Curly Method and Shingling Method of Wash and go. I see you are stuck on one system. Good for you.  

So apparently you will stop at nothing. You will lie, make up quotes that didn't exist, use insults and nasty language, anything to promote that woman's company.  The conversation is no longer intelligent with all this telling of lies and name calling so I will leave you to wallow in your discomfort.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 9:18am
Edit: blindly accept like the cult? Where anywhere did you get that impression from anything that I wrote? I'm saying it is good, because it works. I have seen an improvement in other naturals like myself's hair. I have seen an improvement in my own hair. I am PROVING everything i'm saying. But you seem to be the only one here hung up on the word curly girl that you are not getting the message at all.

You are not only shoving words into my mouth, that I neither said or am trying to imply, but you are clearly the one who is being hardheaded in this situation. You are simply disagreeing because you believe you know better, and are trying to force methods that I've already pointed out to not be effective. I'm not going to blindly accept anything unless I can prove it, have tried it, and it makes logical sense to me.

I am not going to blindly agree with what you are saying because I've been there, tried the things you are talking about, and so have plenty of naturals. I see no increases in moisture retention, I see time consuming hours spent twisting the hair into looser looking curls b/c they don't feel their hair looks moisturized enough to just wear in a wash and go. but i'm the self hater for encouraging people to hydrate their coils and zig zags.

You have not proved anything your saying is more beneficial for type 4b/4c hair than the entirety of the regimen I have explained. but I guess i'm supposed to just believe you because you try and make it seem like this post is about worshipping white hairstylsts. It would NEVER have any thing to do with the actual effectiveness, or anything.

Trying to use these racial tension tactics in your argument is not going to change the fact that what I am saying has nothing to do with that.In the end water will always work for the hair. Our hair needs water, and the method I am talking about it most effectively targets that issue in our hair.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 9:55am
I totally agree our hair needs moisture. So stop act like you're telling me something I don't know. I  think our hair also needs oils. Our hair does not need gel though.   I am not here to prove anything to you because I can't do your hair online. Do the research on the other systems please. Buy the other book. Try it and then you can decide for yourself. You are arguing against a system that you have not researched. Read the other book before you disagree with it. I have read all 3 of the books mentioned in this thread. Apparently maybe you read the Curly Girl book only.  Please read the other book before you dismiss it and make inaccurate statements about it.


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 10:36am
Great post. I'm interested in how to get that popping coil look WITHOUT spending hours in the bathroom.

I know some people can do CG method and it works, but it doesn't work like that in my hair.

The girls you posted at first are great examples of what is possible, but they do not articulate their method well (except for one of them who seems to have more of 3C hair, not 4C hair). None of the first girls mentioned needed to smooth gel through their hair. 

There's just a lot of random tips and information here. I'm looking for a simple, NOT-time-comsuming method. 


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 10:42am
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

Pink you are making an inaccurate assumption that shingling and Tight curly methods do not involve hydration. Quite the contrary, both methods involve the same frequent co washing as curly girl. So stop making up lies.  No one ever said that water makes hair " nappier" you used quotes to imply they were my words and they are not. You apparently will lie anyway possible to promote this company. How long have you been their biggest advertiser? Are you on the payroll. You should be. Also I never said Tight Curly "is a version of Curly Girl" That would assume curly girl is the original and it is not. Natural gelled and lubricated wash and goes have been done on Black hair for MANY decades (centuries even) long before that company arrived in the last 10 years and tried to claim to invent it.   I was doing them on patrons 20 and 30 years ago in fact.

You say I did not offer a solution. That is a lie. I keep offering TWO solutions but you are too blind to read them... Tight Curly Method and Shingling Method of Wash and go. I see you are stuck on one system. Good for you.  

So apparently you will stop at nothing. You will lie, make up quotes that didn't exist, use insults and nasty language, anything to promote that woman's company.  The conversation is no longer intelligent with all this telling of lies and name calling so I will leave you to wallow in your discomfort.




Before I get into this, let me first apologize if I said anything to personally offend you. I disagree with you, but i'm not trying to offend anyone here, so if you got that impression, let me say that is not my intention. also, I am not being paid for this at all. I'm pretty sure I made a post here before about ecostyler gel, I just haven't really been as activate as I have been lately. I don't know why ppl always try to assume when someone is dedicated to a topic it's some form of marketing. i'm not benefitting from posting anything on this site, i'm just sharing knowledge, like everyone else here is, so I would appreciate if you didn't try to belittle everything i'm saying just b/c I disagree with you.



THESE ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM YOUR EARLIER POSTS BTW, ALONG WITH MY REBUTTALS.


"the curly girl technique will not turn kinks into curls. In fact, her technique is designed mainly for white women with slightly curly hair who want to make it TIGHTER or nappier."

the cg technique makes the hair nappier. You said and implied that, and in your post when you said, "The Kccc alone will leave the hair hard as a brick and the shrinkage is too much. A solution is to use an emollient rich product first.."

I assumed that meant you think that water and moisture alone under the gel would cause shrinkage, hence putting oil underneath to weigh the hair down further. You also implied you think oil is the pergotive instead of water/conditioner, because we should be wanting to aspire for a looser look. this is where I had my disagreements with you about zigzag and coils having the ability to exist without being nappy. this is one of the main things I argued against even in my first post.


"I also read the Curly Girl book today as well as The Tight Curly book. They are both good and both offer excellent tips and suggestions. In the end one should try both and see what works best for the individual"

But you changed your tone several times..

"PS I actually think CG works good for MY hair (3b) and Caucasian hair when buffered with T C techniques all mixed together into one blended methodology and approach. I think it is a very bad approach for 4 type hair in general."

I am confused about what you are trying to convey in both the quotes above. You said they are both good techniques and one should try and see what works best for the individual, but it's obvious you don't really believe that by your second quote. throughout this entire post I have emphasized making the cg method work best for your hair. I gave the 4b/4c low porosity standpoint of how to actually make it work for your hair, how to get max hydration, but you completely ignored the examples of transformed hair that I showed, and insist it doesn't work for type 4 hair.

"Curly Girl is trying to impose volumizing, drying Caucasian styling techniques on already thick, dry Black hair."
I already said, make it work for you. The parts of the method I have emphasized are the moisturizing regimens, not techniques. Techniques are what you do to make something work for you. I am giving those techniques, and videos of people succeeding and changing their hair with those techniques. I myself are using these techniques, and if they were not working, i'd be bashing them right now.

"OH, one last thing, the author of curly girls contradicts herself about not liking silicones because the brand of hair color she produces and promotes is SILICONE BASED and full of many silicones."

Do I have to repeat this over and over? I am not telling anyone to buy the divacare brand! Not at all! in any way! ziltch! Please find a quote where I said, "Diva care products are the best for 4a/4b/ low porosity hair." or "We all need to buy diva care products." You keep bringing this up, but it isn't relevant in anyway.

"Gels can be included if they make you comfy, but our hair needs application of emollients and lipids instead of thinking we can some day produce them if we keep at it hard enough. Hair is DEAD once it's on your head. It is not going to start producing anything that it did not already. You need to apply the moisture and oils topically. Gels alone generally don't have much of either of these that our hair needs. In fact too much drying gel is generally counterindicated for our hair. Moisturizing and oil rich products are indicated for our hair"

Our hair does not produce water. Our hair produces oil. everyone's hair does. In the science of black hair it says our hair does produce oil, it just can't get down the entire hair shaft. Secondly, you seem to be implying that oil is the same thing as moisture. It isn't. Water moisturizes the hair. conditioner moisturizes the hair. Oil does not moisturize the hair. They seal in moisture just like gel does, and can be just as drying depending on the gel ur using. This is why I recommended botanical and gels with little to no proteins or at least no harsh ones. They don't have a longterm drying effect on the hair strands, the also, gel does a better job of sealing in moisture because it creates a cast. The drying effect of the cast is usually because gel either contains plastics or harsh proteins. But even you yourself are not against protein, infact you encourage it, recommending henna treatments, and protein treatments, ecostyler gel, and silicones which act like protein in the hair.

The only reason I emphasize gel is because it seals in moisture better, and clumps the curl into organized parts that are prevented from tangling up on one another. It will not make a curl, it hold the curl that wants to pop up and better defines it. However if your hair is not moisturized and hydrated, you will have your curls unable to form together. This is explained in the science of black hair as well. that will cause the knotting, tangling, and dryness naturals find in their hair because they are not sealing moisture into the hairshaft. Barely any of the water is actually absorbing into the cuticle so the curls aren't forming. the gel is then not furfilling it's purpose and just sitting on dehydrated hair, drying it further.

“I think a conditioner or Eco Styler gel with OILs added and with vegetable glycerine added will produce the best results. I think that castor oil with olive oil is a good oil mix. Add Vegetable glycerine to that and some eco styler gel for a winning formula to do the Culy Like Me Tightly Curly Method.”

This post is for people who find their hair not getting anymore moisturized from doing these methods. I am one of them, and they do not work for my hair type. This is what I was addressing when I said, TC is a version of CG. The only difference is the Tc method encourages silicones oils and glycerine, and that is what makes it tightly curly. Unfortunetly, these difference are non beneficial on type 4 hair, which is different from type 3 hair, type 2 hair and type 1 hair. Our hair is different and that's what i'm emphasizing. The writer of the tc method looks to have type 3 hair to me. The adivice may be more relevant for looser textures but not for the tightest, naturally drier texturers. It is specifically the encouragement of silicones and sulfates I won't bend on.

"So just feel free to co wash and dont try to remove the protective silicone coatings from the strands. "

This is a fundamental disagreement I have. Hair needs to be gently clarified. You cannot leave silicones in your hair. period. Pretty sure the practice of using silciones and sulfates is from ignorance of curly hair that has been perpetualized in white hair products. So what your saying actually gravitates toward a more straight hair way of thinking.

Pink you are making an inaccurate assumption that shingling and Tight curly methods do not involve hydration. Quite the contrary, both methods involve the same frequent co washing as curly girl. So stop making up lies.

Please give me an example of 4b/4c/4a girls doing solely the tightly curly method, using silicones, glycerin and heavy butters that have maximum hydration. Also, I'm not making anything up. Silicones and sulfates are drying for the hair, you can't continuously use silicones (which block moisture from the hair) and sulfates (which strip moisture from the hair.


"Also I never said Tight Curly "is a version of Curly Girl"

"In the final analysis, both authors REALLY ARE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THINGS!!!…There are only a few minor differences in their opinions. So it boils down to who do you want to hear it from. "


Okay, so they are saying "the exact same things" at the base, but aren't different versions of one another? Okay. If you're trying to say that the author of the tightly curly method wasn't influenced at all by the cg method, then I'm no even going to get into that. The tightly curly method is a modified version of the cg method for women with tightly curly hair, and what I am saying and have said SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THIS POST is that this method is a modified version of the cg method. In the end they are all the same things with slight variations, but those slight variations make or break the hydration levels in our hair. It isn't about who I want to hear them from, I do not support the use of silicones and sulfates and heavy oils in the hair.








Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 10:56am
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

Great post. I'm interested in how to get that popping coil look WITHOUT spending hours in the bathroom.

I know some people can do CG method and it works, but it doesn't work like that in my hair.

The girls you posted at first are great examples of what is possible, but they do not articulate their method well (except for one of them who seems to have more of 3C hair, not 4C hair). None of the first girls mentioned needed to smooth gel through their hair. 

There's just a lot of random tips and information here. I'm looking for a simple, NOT-time-comsuming method. 



Thank you. That is the point of this post, to better organize the techniques and information. one who you said to have 3c. is aucurlsnaturalle? I did not post that, lady aradia did. I also believe she has 3c hair. If you are talking about danabnaturals, she has 4a hair. If you look at her previous videos and earlier wash and gos, they are just as "nappy" as any 4c/4b hair. That is what building moisture levels in the hair does over time, it makes the curls more apparent, and even clump into bigger sections. But her hair is in no way 3c.

I know it seems like a lot, and it's hard to follow, but please read the post, it serves as a summary and guideline of some of the things they do. it can be time consuming at first, but your hair does change overtime. This method isn't so much about the immediate gratifying results of spending hours defining your curls, your hair literally retains more and more moisture overtime.

it does not take a lot of repeated shingling, actually once you properly do each step, by the time you apply gel the definition comes easier. Look to the post exceedinggrace and femmemuscle is back made about the process. It's better summed up that way.

the smoothing method is what akedafitgirl does in combination with raking. Its a combination of smoothing and raking product into the hair. Like I said throughout the post, if you are consistent for a while, as the moisture retention levels build up in your hair, so will ease and manageability. It literally improves the manageability of hair overtime, which is a benefit you don't receive from a lot of the dehydration based set styles a lot of us are used to doing.


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:01am
Oh my goodness, you clearly feel like debating. I really do not feel like responding to all of this because it is meaningless to me. I will just correct your statement that the hair produces oils. It does not. The scalp is the source of the oils. That is just one example of how you've got everything kind of screwy.


Posted By: liesnalibis
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:11am
I won't even pretend I read the last couple pages so forgive me if I'm off topic but shingling didn't really work for me. It left me with that Sideshow Bob look. I think people are obsessed with getting their hair to lie down when it's not ready or it just isn't that type of hair. I'll take upright, shiny coils any day than stretched out, gelled down spikes. I'm not saying shingling is bad. It's great if it works for you. But I like my wash and gos best when I take each curl and define it individually rather than smushing them down en masse.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:14am
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

Oh my goodness, you clearly feel like debating. I really do not feel like responding to all of this because it is meaningless to me. I will just correct your statement that the hair produces oils. It does not. The scalp is the source of the oils. That is just one example of how you've got everything kind of screwy.


honestly, you knew what I was trying to say. Scalp, hair. I was basically saying that it doesn't produce water, it produces oil. and i clearly implied that was what I was trying to say, when I said the science of black hair shows that the oil has trouble spreading down the length of curlier hair types. The hair is able to absorb that oil into the shaft for the most part,but nothing just sprouts out of the hair shaft. Water however does enter the hair shaft. Word games like that are what you've been playing from the get go, dodging the issue.

You can end your statement with, "Well i'm right anyway", because that the only defense you have and you can't really back it up.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:18am
Originally posted by liesnalibis liesnalibis wrote:

I won't even pretend I read the last couple pages so forgive me if I'm off topic but shingling didn't really work for me. It left me with that Sideshow Bob look. I think people are obsessed with getting their hair to lie down when it's not ready or it just isn't that type of hair. I'll take upright, shiny coils any day than stretched out, gelled down spikes. I'm not saying shingling is bad. It's great if it works for you. But I like my wash and gos best when I take each curl and define it individually rather than smushing them down en masse.


Smoothing and raking, or shaking, do whatever works for you. The main point is that hydration will and has and does increase the ease of which your curls pop, to the point where the time consuming techniques can be done less and less. I urge you to try it for one week. You can try femmemuscleisback's summaration or graceexceeding's. I really feel it is the combination and the regimen that creates the ease, not so much the individual shingling techniques.


Posted By: liesnalibis
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:21am
pinkcube I will def read this thread more closely and I'm always open to trying new things with my hair. I can't wait to chime in.

So wonderful to see debate and exchange of ideas in the natural section! It's usually so dry.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:29am
thank you so much for being open to this. yes I was prepared to defend my view against skeptics, since this seems like an almost "too good" post, I knew I would need to clarify what I meant, prove, educate and show that this isn't delusional or wishful thinking.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 12:30pm
btw, I wanted to add one last note about just how much moisture really impacts the way your curls look, and the health of your curls. Like I said b4, my hair hated ecostyler gel. I posted about my experience sometime last year. I also have found my hair hated gels with hydrolyzed wheat protein. The use of ecostyler caused me to have a bald spot in my hair, and dry crunchy hair. This is back when I still equated softness alone with moisturized hair. I did strict protective styling and gentle hair practices to recover, making sure to seal my hair with oils, etc. That area was as smooth as a baby's butt. It wasn't until I incorporated ghe, that I found the missing link in my regimen. MOISTURE.

My hair had not grown in that area for over a year, long after abandoning gels in my regimen. But in 2 weeks of doing ghe everynight, and even during(no oils, no conditioner, just head sweat) the bald smooth look was gone and I could see buds of hair growth. Almost like the way buzz cuts look in comparison to a completely bald smooth shiny head. The only thing I probably did wrong was not cleansing my hair, because I was still putting shea butter and did a protective style on my other hair strands. Those areas had build up, and tangles from the protective style I had to spend hours dry detangling with my fingers. Where as the loose (because bald) section of my hair improved.

Fast forward 3 months later-- I had 1.5 inches of growth. See? the consistent application of MOISTURE being kept and almost sealed in on my hair for 12 hours in the night, helped my hair grow. But it did not stop there. My new growth was defined! That section of hair was in the area where my hair was the coarsest and tightest. I never has root to tip definition there, even when the hair there was longer. It Literally seemed grow out in curls, where as before, that hair would maybe clump at the ends and that's it, if I was lucky. This is even after doing numerous fingercoiling, shingling, etc techniques. Where as it was just pop! right out, no forcing, but clumping just from being wet. The method I'm talking about has the same effect on the hair, without starting from scratch, either.


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 1:10pm
I 100% agree that when it comes to type 4 hair, MOISTURE is everything. I, myself, am trying the GHE method for the first time this week.

I think what you're trying to consolidate are methods that keep the hair moisturized. If I were you, I'd consider organizing this information, writing an e-book, get some testimonials and makes some money, lol.

I think a good way to organize this information is to:
1. explain why type 4 hair gets dry so quickly
2. explain why type 4 hair gets tangled more easily
3. what needs to happen to have tangle-free, moisturized, coil-popping hair (answer: moisture and hair that clumps together)
3. provide different techniques that accomplish both of these
4. testimonials (that are well documented... some of these youtube videos are just "all over the place" as someone else said) that show people who used techniques, the time-frame, and the results they got.

Am I in the ball-park of what you are trying to do?


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 1:28pm
Is this video a good example of the method you're talking about?
http://youtu.be/gDQFUAJT8_s


What would happen if I did what this girl does AND did GHE?


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

I 100% agree that when it comes to type 4 hair, MOISTURE is everything. I, myself, am trying the GHE method for the first time this week.

I think what you're trying to consolidate are methods that keep the hair moisturized. If I were you, I'd<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> consider organizing this information, writing an e-book, get some testimonials and makes some money, lol.</span>

I think a good way to organize this information is to:
1. explain why type 4 hair gets dry so quickly
2. explain why type 4 hair gets tangled more easily
3. what needs to happen to have tangle-free, moisturized, coil-popping hair (answer: moisture and hair that clumps together)
3. provide different techniques that accomplish both of these
4. testimonials (that are well documented... some of these youtube videos are just "all over the place" as someone else said) that show people who used techniques, the time-frame, and the results they got.

Am I in the ball-park of what you are trying to do?



Thank you for the suggestions. I will try to come up with a few shortened and summed up methods & regimens and post them on here. As for ebook, that sounds great, but that's a ways away for me, at least for now.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

Is this video a good example of the method you're talking about?
http://youtu.be/gDQFUAJT8_s


What would happen if I did what this girl does AND did GHE?




Love that vid, but what I would tweak is clarifying the hair first with either acv, bentonite clay or both. There are some other things, and I'm beginning to see where people are getting lost here, it's a lot of information to read. but I will do is update this post later on with the simple, step by step, summed up regimens I have in mind, in a couple hours or as soon as I can get back to my computer. Thanks again


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

Is this video a good example of the method you're talking about?
http://youtu.be/gDQFUAJT8_s


What would happen if I did what this girl does AND did GHE?
Yes these girls are using the shingling method and with the denman brush that Teri LaFlesh describes in her book. Here she is herself talking about the method





Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 4:07pm


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 4:24pm
Okay here is the MAX HYDRATION METHOD I am talking about:

Prestep for first timer

If you're doing this method for the first time, I would suggest starting off with a Modified or regular Cherry Lola Treatment. After that, this can be done as often as every 2 weeks. I myself have only done the treatment twice. The first time I did it I did the regular version, only I didn't have liquid aminos. The second time I did the modified version, along with the liquid aminos. This was a few months ago, but I noticed and still notice the effect it had on my hair. It is what set me up to have root to tip definition in certain areas of my hair.

The modified version is a combination of the Caramel Treatment, and Cherry Lola

Ingredients:
Greek yogurt (2 cups)
Baking soda (2 tbsp)
Organic apple cider vinegar (2 tbsp)
Raw coconut aminos(or just regular aminos, but i personally didn't like soy in my hair) (2 tbsp)
Raw honey (1/2 tbsp)
Unsulfured molasses (1 tbsp)
Half an over ripe plantain or banana
Avocado (3/4 tbsp)
1 egg (optional, but I used it no problem)

blend the ingredients in your blender.
saturate your dry (but detangled) hair completely from root to tip with the mixture.
put a shower cap and let sit for 1.5-2 hours.
Rinse out completely with warm/hot water.
co wash with botanical/cg friendly conditioner. ( whatever you wash your hair with will be absorbed into the hair shaft, so no silicones, parabens, sulfates, drying denatured alcohol)
apply more conditioner but leave it in.
seal with botanical gel

if you choose to do the regular recipe, it is the same as this only substract the vinegar, overriped banana and advocado, egg, and molasses. after doing this you can cowash. and continue on from there to a wash and go. DONT do an acv rinse directly after this. You can do a cowash and maybe do a cold rinse with conditioner afterword and that will be enough to reclose the cuticle. The point of temporarily opening the hair cuticle is so the moisture can get in, it makes no sense to just reclose it before actually putting the moisture in your hair.

Step 1: Clarify

Option 1: Apple cider vinegar rinse. You do a 1:1 ratio of apple cider vinegar with water in an applicator bottle. Apply in sections. Let it sit in the hair for 30- 1 hr before rinsing.

Option 2: Baking soda rinse. Mix 1.5 tablespoons of baking soda into 1/3 a cup conditioner. Apply to hair in sections and let sit on the hair for 10-30 minutes.

Option 3: Alternating between either rinse. You can opt to do each rinse every other day/night. It's up to you to experiment.



Step 2: Cowash&detangle

Option 1: Apply warm conditioner in your hair in sections. Let it sit for 10 minutes, rinse out with warm water, while detangling under the water. if you are doing this step, first pour the conditioner into a microwavable bowl, and microwave for no more than 10-15 sec if you are using the microwave to heat your conditioner. NEVER just stick the bottle of conditioner straight into the microwave. no. trust me.

Option 2: Apply conditioner to your hair in sections, and deep condition by covering your hair in a shower cap. Maybe put a scarf over it to trap heat. This can be done overnight, as exceedinggrace mentioned in her post. The first two steps can actually be done before bed. in the morning, you can detangle your hair before going in the shower or also under the running water in section, your hair will have enough slip to detangle outside of the shower though.

Option 3: Apply conditioner to you hair, put on a shower cap, and steam your hair.Akedafitgirl does this once a week, and does her hair every 2-3 days. I would recommend trying to do it more often, as her hair already has maximum hydration, we are trying to build that up.  detangle before getting in the shower and in the shower under the running water, similar to the first step.

EDIT: sorry guys, i forgot to mention this is also the step you detangle your hair in!

Step 3: Bentonite clay rinseWith all options, leave the rinse on the hair for at least 15 minutes before rinsing, and remember to apply in sections.

Option 1: Bentonite clay rinse with out apple cider vinegar

ingredients(rough measurements):
1 cup bentonite clay
1.5 cup warm water
1 tbspn of honey
1 tblspn of olive oil

Option 2: bentonite clay with apple cider vinegar Same, just add vinegar.

Option 3: Ready made bentonite clay rinse, or any other type of clay used to clarify hair examples like rohsoul clay (excuse me if that's misspelled, I will go back to correct it) or terrasentials.

Step 4: Leave in Conditioner
Following the cg rules, avoid any conditioner with silicones, sulfates, and drying alchols. Other than that, apply thoroughly in sections, you really want you hair to be wet. application techniques include smoothing and raking, twirling or whatever technique works for you. These are suggestions, there's no set rule on specific application techniques imo, just apply enough so your hair glides through and you feel slip. Same with gel.



Step 5: Apply Botanical Gel of your choice

Option 1: use a small amount of oil (or however much you feel you need) for extra sealing before gel if you find you need it, for more softness.

Option2: don't. it's up to you.

In application of gel, you should be putting enough so you can feel the gel slip, that way you know it's coated the hair. A technique that has worked for me is starting the gel application at the base of the section, like i'm slicking my edges or applying a root touch up with hair dye. then smooth it down the rest of the strand and proceed to rake, smooth, and spread the gel evenly. Apply more gel if you need to spread it further. Do this in sections and twirl and clip the sections away with a shower clip as you go along. This will help keep you organized. When I both the leave in and gel step, it takes 30-40 minutes, so it's fast in comparison to what I needed to do before.

This is the step where you will see your curls pop and clump together.


Finished.


Optional steps for stretching

Step 6: stretching options


Option 1: Clipping

Rachaelcpr actually does something similar to this one of her videos. I recommend taking as many sections as you need, twirling/rolling/single twisting/French roll whatever you call it, and clipping it in place. Leave it like that for maybe 30 minutes or as you get dressed, take the clips out, and shake. This should give a slight stretch.


Option 2: Wear your hair in a rolled half ponytail

You can actually do this on short hair. Just section the top of your hair (the part used in making a half pony) and section that into two on either sides(left and right).

Take one section of freshly defined hair (don't worry about it being wet, the definition stays) and roll it towards the back of your head like a French roll, pinning in place. Do the same with the other side. Wear this for the day. When you get back, your hair will be dry. Take the pins out, unroll your hair and shake. Your hair will be stretched but sticking up. Take a satin scarf and arrange your hair the way you want it to fall before gently securing it (not to tight).

By the morning your hair will be a smushed, but the curls will remain unfrizzy, and they won't be completely oblitherated either (a big problem I would have w/ set styles) because of the gel. Now take you fingers to your roots and jiggle them in a back and forth motion, gently. This should shake loose your now stretched curls for second day hair. If you want a stretch for third day, you only have to put the scarf on your head to sleep.

This should stretch the top half of your hair for a bob like shape, but won't interfere with the curl pattern like twisting and braiding would imo, and also with out drying your hair out with heat.



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

This girl and all the examples you've shown all have 3c hair or type 3 hair. Show some one with majority of 4a, 4b, 4c hair succeeding from doing this. I was able to


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 4:59pm
  I think the lovely young lady in this video misquoted on a few things. It was my understanding that Teri never blow dries and she did use finger combing in her videos before the denman brush.  She also says in her book cowashing and prepooing are fine if they work for you. Other than that, I agree with this girl TOTALLY and she is a 4b/c. 
She did exactly what I advise. She studied BOTH SYSTEMS and picked bits and pieces from each that work for her and her hair.  
Clap
Another Tightly Curly Method girl with 4c tiny winy Afro

Another Tightly Curly Lady's experience. 4a-c

Pink I read your post above and I really like you posted a modification of the Cherry Lola Treatment. I do a Cherry Lola at least once per month if not twice. I also very much like the suggestions you offered for stretching the hair with twists  or little pony tails. Very good suggestions!Clap


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 6:07pm
I think the fundamental disagreement we are having is the fact you believe just the tightly curly method, straight from the book is the perfect regimen for the hair. I believe neither regimens straight from the book is good for the hair. But I do believe the cg method gravitates more toward understanding your hair's individual characteristics. I am posting what is a modified version of the cg method for type 4 hair. This method, like I posted in a previous post, involves the science of black hair, haircare rehab, the loc method, cg, etc. All things that help us understand the differences in our hair and how to clarify and get proper hydration.

I believe it IS necessary to make the disctinction between hairtypes,(which involves porosity, tightness of the curl, density, and thickness) which cg does encourgages, and tc does not. She seems to say her method will work for all black hair, but it simply won't. some hair is just way too difficult to get moisture into the strands to be doing the things she encourages. Information like density, porosity, curl tightness. These things do matter, because it effects how easily our hair absorbs moisture. Understanding these differences allows us to come up with modified regimens so we can get moisture into our hair shaft.

The girl in the first video's hair is like mine was before I started doing this method. My twist outs looked just like that, on the first day. The general results I had gotten in my hair were inconsistent at best, despite the fact I seemed to be following this exact regimen. I mean, twist outs, the occasional wash and go? These are just styling. I want to build up moisture in my hair and reach max hydration. Styling is inconsistent and temporarily satisfactory in my and many other type for naturals experiences.

The method that she is doing does not help build up moisture retention levels in the hair. I personally don't find the tc method all that different from what a lot of naturals are already doing. It allows for a lot of exceptions that cause dryness in the hair, but doesn't seem to identify the importance of the difference in our hair so we can effectively get moisture into the shaft based on what our hair needs.

If you would like, I can rename this method to the hydration method, because that's what i'm trying to emphasize in this post. Maximum hydration I did not see in this post. They can literally build up the moisture levels in their hair if the focus was on building up hydration, to eventually reach max hydration, which is a method the cg handbook coined first and why I credited it to them.


Thanks about the comment for modified cherry lola and stretching techniques. btw. It means a lot to finally get some appreciation on your end for some of the things im saying


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 7:51pm
Pinkcube, I can totally understand what your saying about the hydration of 4 types. By the way, I like the Hydration Method name! I understand that it is a real problem.  Have you noticed any improvement at all in your moisture levels by not doing cones? Glycerine doesn't work for you at all?  Vegetable glycerine sucks moisture from the air and loads it on the hair when you wear a product containing vegetable glycerine with water in it. Kind of like the Jeri curls never seemed to dry. The curl moisturizers like Care Free  Curl and S Curl have glycerine as the main ingredient that suck water from the air and put it in the hair constantly. I am using Prettywitty77s moisturizer now and it works really well for me. It contains this water pumping glycerine also. But I put aloe vera and coconut oil in it also. Her formula contains hello hydration conditioner, water, vegetable glycerine. This gives you liquid, and cream (LC) I would suggest adding some olive oil to it though for more the complete LOC formula

The vegetable glycerine and water mixtures like this in general do get rave reviews among 4s. I know the Hello Hydration in her formula has dimethicone. Maybe you can substitute some other really moist conditioner that is cone free and use the rest of her formula unchanged. 
What do you think ? Some sort of spray on product like this which the 4 natural can apply frequently to keep the hair drenched should help. On my hair the formula in her video w/ my modifications keeps my hair drenched. I do apply several applications of it though and GHE with it frequently.
 
PS I don't really know a lot about the cone free conditioners. Maybe Aubrey Organics White Camellia Ultra-Smoothing Conditioner is a good cone free substitute for Hello Hydration in the above formula.
PSS I sent you a PM about using baking soda WITH vinegar in your cherry lola dupe formula you made up above. ( They need to be put on separately with the vinegar in a final rinse. You can not mix them together! I like to avoid them both actually because they dry the hair. I understand you want to raise the cuticles to damage the hair so it can take a deeper drink or something. When I do a Cherry Lola I leave the baking soda out all together because I do not want my cuticles raised. Raised cuticles weaken the strand.   I have personally never done a vinegar rinse either even though it tightens the cuticle. The reason I avoid vinegar also is because it is also really DRYING on the hair. The 2 together would really dry the hair a lot in addition to being an explosive combination. Good luck with that.
The bentonite clay is very drying to the skin in masks.  I would be terrified to put it any where near my hair. I understand a lot of naturals use it. But it will suck all the oils and moisture out of whatever it touches.


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:00pm
pinkecube, what is the purpose of using the bentonite clay? That one really threw me off.

Do you have before and after pictures of your hair?

What happens if you do GHE with gel in your hair?

AND yes, you totally can make an e-book. You seem really passionate about this and I would really love to help you with this endeavour if you want. 


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 03 2014 at 11:20pm
I also want to add that I noticed that the "straighter/smoother" you can make your hair, the better. I don't know if this is related to it being easier to stay moisturized or the oil being able to slide down the shaft more easily, but the smoother the hair, the softer the hair seems to be for a longer period of time. So I was interested for a while in things that would supposedly relax curls or make it easier to straighten curls.

What are your thoughts on that?

Another video that looks great to me:


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 9:34am
I AM RESPONDING TO A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS(AND MANY FALSE ASSUMPTIONS) THAT LADYARADIA MADE BELOW


“Have you noticed any improvement at all in your moisture levels by not doing cones?”

Yes, I have. It was one of the first things I did when I started caring for my natural hair, and I noticed my hair felt softer and seemed to get moisturized better. That stripped feeling from washes also went away. Once I changed that I stuck with it, because it was effective.

“Glycerine doesn't work for you at all? Vegetable glycerine sucks moisture from the air and loads it on the hair when you wear a product containing vegetable glycerine with water in it. Kind of like the Jeri curls never seemed to dry. The curl moisturizers like Care Free Curl and S Curl have glycerine as the main ingredient that suck water from the air and put it in the hair constantly.”


I have actually used s curl activator, and it seemed to take away from my defintion instead of adding to it. Also, when I apply vegetable glycerin, and glycerin products (including this one) even if my hair is wet, it seems to some how zap the moisture from it. That soft feeling gets replaced my a sort of squeaky dry feeling. It doesn’t hold in moisture well at all, I find maybe an hour or 2 minutes later, the moisture has evaporated into the air, and my hair feels rough and dry, with a layer of greese.

EDIT: The idea of GLYCERIN pulling moisture out of the air and into the hair seems good in THEORY, but in practice? Let's think about it. The conditions have to be perfect. How many people live in a climate humid enough to be conducive for that? Not to mention seasonal changes, and the different atmospheres depending on what building you are in and their airconditioning and heating systems. Not every building has humidifiers, and definitely hair control units contribute to drying out the air around you. On normal occasions, this could have some form of effect on your hair, but glycerin will probably enhance that effect by further pulling out moisture from the hair into the atmosphere.

If the conditions do happen to be right, its likely that the grease from the glycerin is probably blocking whatever moisture is being pulled toward the hair from actually getting into the hair shaft. Cause that's what oils do. Seal in moisture, or seal out moisture. Then the water being pulled just kinds of sits on the hair for while resulting in that "soft" feeling, but not a truly moisturized feeling because once again the water is not actually nourishing the hair shaft. The water will eventually evaporate into the atmosphere. If one wants to use glycerin, I think it's best if it is NOT LEFT ON THE HAIR. Maybe a conditioner, that you will never use as a leave in, or something



“ I am using Prettywitty77s moisturizer now and it works really well for me. It contains this water pumping glycerine also. But I put aloe vera and coconut oil in it also. Her formula contains hello hydration conditioner, water, vegetable glycerine. This gives you liquid, and cream (LC) I would suggest adding some olive oil to it though for more the complete LOC formula“

My hair does not like coconut oil either. It acts the same way the glycerin does,, the moisture dries out quickly and leaves a greasy film. My hair feels like oily straw, and it doesn’t seem to absorb in my hair for a while. Once it finally does, my hair is left feeling like a dry brillo pad. Olive oil is okay, still a bit greesy, but better than coconut oil. The only problem I have is that alone is simply not enough to hold the moisture in through out the day. A botanical, gentle gel on top will effectively seal in the moisture, where as with simply an oil, I expose myself to tangles, quickly evaporating moisture, and dry, greasy hair by the end of the day.

“The vegetable glycerine and water mixtures like this in general do get rave reviews among 4s. I know the Hello Hydration in her formula has dimethicone. Maybe you can substitute some other really moist conditioner that is cone free and use the rest of her formula unchanged.”

They also get plenty of bashing reviews from type 4‘s, me included. Also, do any of the type 4’s you are speaking of have max hydration?

“Aubrey Organics White Camellia Ultra-Smoothing Conditioner is a good cone free substitute for Hello Hydration in the above formula”

Aubrey organics had to change their formula to add denatured alcohol. Not ceytl acohol, which is a moisturized alcohol, but neatured alcohol, which dries out the hair. There are plenty of cone, sulfate, and denatured alcohol free products, easy to google. Kinky Curly knot today, Trader joes Ph balancing conditioner, Trader Joes Tea Tree Tingle, Tresseme Natural conditoners.

“I sent you a PM about using baking soda WITH vinegar in your cherry lola dupe formula you made up above. ( They need to be put on separately with the vinegar in a final rinse. You can not mix them together! I like to avoid them both actually because they dry the hair.”

the reason i adjusted the recipe was actually because it foamed more. i believe that contributed to my results. Greek yogurt, which is the LARGEST portion of the recipe, already has a low ph 4.25- 4.5, and bc of that the recipe already does already foam. It’s a COUPLE TABLESPOON of vinegar not a GALLON, gee wiz! It’s not going to shoot up in the air like a rocket, it will just foam up inside the blender. the effect when i used it on my hair was very effective, i had a lot of root to tip definition from it, and i was amazed.

the drying factor is why both honey and ripened advocado and ripened banana was added to the recipe. let me also add that the ph of both ripened banana and ripened advocado are actually alkaline, so the effect of everything is pretty balanced out. once rinsed out the hair feels very soft, but egg and molasses can make a mask like effect on the hair if you dont wear a shower cap. i'm going to leave my recipe the way it is because i find it is very effective, and it is not damaging to my hair.



I understand you want to raise the cuticles to damage the hair so it can take a deeper drink or something.

Please don’t misconstrue what I’m saying with false facts and over generalizations.

When I do a Cherry Lola I leave the baking soda out all together because I do not want my cuticles raised. Raised cuticles weaken the strand.   I have personally never done a vinegar rinse either even though it tightens the cuticle. The reason I avoid vinegar also is because it is also really DRYING on the hair. The 2 together would really dry the hair a lot in addition to being an explosive combination. Good luck with that"

Everyone knows the cherry lola treatment does not permanently raise the cuticle. My cuticles were not permanently raised. I also DO NOT suggest doing an ACV rinse right after the cherry lola treatment like you stated in your private message. After thinking about it, I realized that is a pretty big mistake. The whole point is so you can get moisture in first before closing the cuticle. It is OBVIOUSLY NOT DRYING which is rich, coming from someone who seems to want to push silicones on type 4 hair, because it has worked on people with type 3 hair. If you rinse your hair in cider before even cowashing, its like opening your cuticles just to immediately close them again. The hair won’t benefit from that at all.

Secondly, this post is for type 4, low porosity hair girls to benefit from. These are the kinds of things they need to do to get moisture into their hair more efficiently, because our hair naturally has more resistence to absorbing moisture. The things we do to our hair are going to differ from what some one with type 3 hair can do to theres. There are things you will do to your hair that I will not benefit from, and vice versa. All naturals are not the same, and we need to accept that so we can learn what each individual hair needs, not ignore them. This is one of the main reasons again, why I disagree with the mindset of the tightly curly method. Period.



"The bentonite clay is very drying to the skin in masks. I would be terrified to put it any where near my hair. I understand a lot of naturals use it. But it will suck all the oils and moisture out of whatever it touches."


Okay, like I said before, the recipe is what you do. You don’t just slap the bentonite clay powder straight on your head, like with a face mask. I already included that recipe in what I wrote. There is nothing scary about clarifying your hair. The mixture is able to gently put out toxins from the hair without drying it out, which is precisely why I suggested it. I have done it before, and in no way was this drying, my hair felt very soft upon rinse out.



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 9:47am
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

I also want to add that I noticed that the "straighter/smoother" you can make your hair, the better. I don't know if this is related to it being easier to stay moisturized or the oil being able to slide down the shaft more easily, but the smoother the hair, the softer the hair seems to be for a longer period of time. So I was interested for a while in things that would supposedly relax curls or make it easier to straighten curls.

What are your thoughts on that?

Another video that looks great to me:


I am going to watch the full video now, but my initial impression is this is probably some protein based treatment that claims to "loosen" the curls, or maybe coconut, which can act like protein. It's a similar effect to what henna has on the hair. It isn't going to help you increase your moisture retention levels, it seems like more of coating the hair with protein to get it to appear weighed down. We want to actually have moisturized hair. I will comment and recorret my self further after watching the whole video, but these are my initial thoughts.


Edit: okay, I have watched the entire video. I'm was glad to see this wasn't another one of those coconut cream relaxer tutorials, very interesting about the emolltion.

I think that when it comes to relaxed hair, the idea is usually to soften the hair so it is easier to straighten. For Max hydration, and coils and zigzags that just pop out and clump, the priority is to add moisture, which leads to softening. I suppose this would make a softening deep condition once in a while, but it doesn't really relax the hair or alter the hair cuticle. If any thing the egg may add a bit of protein to the cuticle, but it isn't going to just leave you with straight hair. That's why she had to straighten the hair after word. Let me add that her new growth doesn't seem more than an inch long. It's very likely the way it hangs and appears is effected by the rest of her relaxed ends


I feel maybe I should briefly explain frizz and where it comes from. Frizz comes from dry hair. When your hair is dry and chronically dry, you will have your cuticles reaching out toward the atmosphere for moisture. That gives the frizzy, "nappier" look. Along with that, some people have added resistance to moisture, which is where porosity comes in. If you have low porosity hair your cuticles are not opened wide enough to receive moisture. This can be worsened by things that build up on the hair including greasy oils, protein, and silicones. This will block the cuticles from receiving moisture even when they are opened.



Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 10:26am
Pinkecube, you've literally inspired me to take on a new project.

Not this month, but maybe the next, I will create a short PDF and you can proof-read it. I really want this method to be hashed-out, thoroughly thought-through, and then popularized (become as well-known as curly girl method and other "methods").

I think a good first project for me is to create a chart comparing Max Hydration Method (your method) to other "methods". I'm going to compare it to Curly Girl method, Tightly Coily method, GHE, LOC, baggie method, inversion method -- anything else?

Also, I will try to contact the youtubers you have listed who have gotten their hair to max hydration. If you can think of others (even if they are people you just know personally), I'd like to contact them to. 

Let's see how deep we can take this.

I have already put my hair in braids, so I won't be able to test this out on myself for a while (but I'm doing GHE on my braids).



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 10:33am
Originally posted by kwicherbichen kwicherbichen wrote:

<span style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">Pinkecube, you've literally inspired me to take on a new project.</span><div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">Not this month, but maybe the next, I will create a short PDF and you can proof-read it. I really want this method to be hashed-out, thoroughly thought-through, and then popularized (become as well-known as curly girl method and other "methods").<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">I think a good first project for me is to create a chart comparing Max Hydration Method (your method) to other "methods". I'm going to compare it to Curly Girl method, Tightly Coily method, GHE, LOC, baggie method, inversion method -- anything else?<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">Also, I will try to contact the youtubers you have listed who have gotten their hair to max hydration. If you can think of others (even if they are people you just know personally), I'd like to contact them to. <div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">Let's see how deep we can take this.<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.799999237060547px;">I have already put my hair in braids, so I won't be able to test this out on myself for a while (but I'm doing GHE on my braids).



Wow, that's Awesome! What a great idea! Thank you so much, the more people that know about this the better, this is so going to improve the type 4 natural hair community!

I will do a search of more people doing this method if I can find any. I have yet to introduce this to one of my cousins who is also a type 4b 4c natural. If I can get her permission, maybe I get her to document the progression of her hair. I may have to blur out her face, for privacy, though.

Keep up the ghe every night. And don't forget when you take out you braids to dry detangle before wetting your hair. Detangling right after your hair is still soft from ghe will help the ease of detangling through the build up and tangle knot that tends to form on some of the braids after long term wearing.


definitely the further we can take this and the more ears this can reach, the better. We'll call this the Max Hydration Method


Posted By: LadyAradia
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 10:57am
Originally posted by pinkecube pinkecube wrote:

 
this post is for type 4, low porosity hair girls to benefit from. These are the kinds of things they need to do to get moisture into their hair more efficiently, because our hair naturally has more resistence to absorbing moisture. The things we do to our hair are going to differ from what some one with type 3 hair can do to theres. There are things you will do to your hair that I will not benefit from, and vice versa. 
You are absolutely right Pinkcube Best wishes.  I cant wait to see how it turns out for you ladies!Thumbs Up And I would love to see photos.
Exits thread.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 11:05am
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

Originally posted by pinkecube pinkecube wrote:

 
this post is for type 4, low porosity hair girls to benefit from. These are the kinds of things they need to do to get moisture into their hair more efficiently, because our hair naturally has more resistence to absorbing moisture. The things we do to our hair are going to differ from what some one with type 3 hair can do to theres. There are things you will do to your hair that I will not benefit from, and vice versa. 
You are absolutely right Pinkcube Best wishes.  I cant wait to see how it turns out for you ladies!Thumbs Up And I would love to see photos.
Exits thread.


Thank you so very much for the support, and I'm actually greatful for a lot of the points you brought up, and your dedication to analyzing this thread up and down. A lot of the questions and concerns you had were somewhat reasonable, if not a bit misguided, but they were obviously points that needed to be directly addressed, corrected, and thoroughly explained so people who view this can have their misunderstandings cleared up.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 04 2014 at 11:03pm
Look to my post titled max hydration method for my cleanest written and most current edited version of the method i am talking about


Posted By: eternalhair
Date Posted: Mar 10 2014 at 9:24am
What is nappy hair? Who came up with that term? Anyway, have you ever thought that maybe you are doing something damaging to your hair and don't know it. Check out these 20 hair secrets! May it help you on your journey Ladies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpIo3hlod6A&list=UUiQtH0xIv98_-hszXdRZBSQ


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Mar 10 2014 at 9:36am
Originally posted by eternalhair eternalhair wrote:

What is nappy hair? Who came up with that term? Anyway, have you ever thought that maybe you are doing something damaging to your hair and don't know it. Check out these 20 hair secrets! May it help you on your journey Ladies!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpIo3hlod6A&list=UUiQtH0xIv98_-hszXdRZBSQ


thanks for posting. did you read most of this post? it addresses a lot of the mistakes type 4 ladies are making. I might try to pull up a sort of Q&A thing so its more organized and easy to read. do check out this link that details the ideal regimen Maximum Hydration Method that i'm talking about. As far as im concerned, "nappy" hair is a way to describe frizzy, chronically dry hair that is difficult to manage. the thing people don't realize, is that is a condition of hair, not a hair type. anyway do check out the link:

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937_page1&SID=55652209f5ea6aa899d36bz9bb5473916319444.html


Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 6:06pm
I am glad this method seems effected for low porosity hair.
Now if only there was a way for us high porosity curly girls to reach maximum hydration!



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 6:27pm
i think that this method will work for high porus and normal porus hair. The only thing i would add is for the bentonite clay rinse, put more applecider vinegar in it to bring the ph down so it will more actively be closed since it has a harder time closing. If your hair is high porus due to damage, the sealing with a gel will be a great benefit. This method will technically work for many hair types. Everyone has cuticles and cortexes at the end of the day. Because the method is so deliberate, you would essentially be in full control of the way your cuticle behaves and each step will work to do different thing for your hair. For example, if you have high porous hair, does that mean you wont benefit from opening your cuticle when moisture needs to get in, and sealing that moisture in? No. Everyones hair on that level functions the same way. Its just with some hair types when you arent making the extra step and controlling all the measures their hair will just respond in the most extreme way. I say give it a shot. Nothing here will damage the hair, and EVERYONES hair loves moisture. And thats what this method is for, especially on the most resistant hair type. Period.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 6:36pm
btw, the max hydration method has its own post now. Refer to there for the best specifics and also testimony pictures. Page one has the full regimen in detail, and i'll be working on an faq, while kwicherbichen creates the max hydration website. http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937_page8.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937_page8.html


Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 6:44pm
The virgin hair growing out of my scalp is porus. No damage..just naturally very porus.
ACV and Porosity Control Conditioner helps to seal my cuticles after deep conditioning, but the cuticles open again making it hard to keep moisturized, tangle free, and frizz free, thus leading to chronic dryness and breakage.

I didn't know there were low porosity 4Cs out there. I am 4C and was under the impression that high porosity was a characteristic of the 4C hair type, so thanks for that.




Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

The virgin hair growing out of my scalp is porus. No damage..just naturally very porus.
ACV and Porosity Control Conditioner helps to seal my cuticles after deep conditioning, but the cuticles open again making it hard to keep moisturized, tangle free, and frizz free, thus leading to chronic dryness and breakage.

I didn't know there were low porosity 4Cs out there. I am 4C and was under the impression that high porosity was a characteristic of the 4C hair type, so thanks for that.




Hey derri.. I actually used to think my hair was high porous at one point. Mainly because it was soft when wet, and then when dry it would feel really dry like i never put anything in my hair, causing everything you just described. I came to realize my hair was actually low porous, and the reason my hair felt so dry was because none of the stuff i put on my hair was actually getting into my hair, it was just sitting on my hair cuticles and evaporating. Then, some of the products i was using were not compatible with my hair, further blocking my cuticle, or stealing and blocking moisture from getting into the cortex. The frizz is caused by the cuticle bushing out toward the atmosphere for moisture, which causes most of the symptoms of 4c hair. Everything youve descrived is low porous hair. I actually strongly believe most ppl who say they have 4c hair, have low porous hair.

Have you done a strand test? Was it on clean hair, using a ph balanced product? Does your hair get white when you apply product?



Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 8:53pm
I did a strand test a long time ago but I am interested in doing another one.
My strands are rough when I glide my fingers up and down, they soaks up oil and product in a matter of minutes, it doesn't leave a white cast with many product except for Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie. Other products it just soaks up. That makes me feel like my hair is not low porosity.

The best way to explain it is that my hair is always thirsty. Also, it loves glycerin and very thick oils like castor oil etc. and never feels weighed down.



Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 06 2014 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

I did a strand test a long time ago but I am interested in doing another one.
My strands are rough when I glide my fingers up and down, they soaks up oil and product in a matter of minutes, it doesn't leave a white cast with many product except for Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie. Other products it just soaks up. That makes me feel like my hair is not low porosity.

The best way to explain it is that my hair is always thirsty. Also, it loves glycerin and very thick oils like castor oil etc. and never feels weighed down.


Derri, i still think the regimen will work for you.  The gel and deep conditioning steps should serve to keep moisture locked into your strands. Also the products i recommend are ph balanced. Still definetly do a strand test. The things you are describing are a common misnomer and one i myself actually had too.

Again, i really feel products cause that "soaked up" feeling. For example, when you use glycerin, does it feel like when you put it on your hair the slipperyness goes away? Or coconut oil, do either of those sort of seem to feel more squeaky when you apply it, even to wet hair? Like as soon as you smooth it on, the water gets zapped? Humectants have a trait of making your products not turn white on your hair, which i've observed when i used to layer aloe juice on top of conditioner and the whiteness would zap along with most of the wet feeling, drying my hair very fast.

 Also if your products contain glycerin, it can have a similar effect. When i used s curl activator, even on wet hair, when i applied it it was like my hair wasnt wet anymore. At the time i thought this was just my hair absorbing. Then i realized the strong humectants and proteins were creating this effect. That feeling is very squeeky, and u could b mistaking the zapping effect of these products as your hair eating it up. I notice the same effect with castor oil. I woul apply it on wet hair and the wetness went down, and whiteness went away so i thought my hair liked it. Que two days later, my hair felt like straw. The reason sheamoisture leaves your hair white is probably the sheabutter. Its an antihumectant.

Im also aware sheamoisture puts glycerin in their products. That could cause the conditioner parts to coagulate on your hair. The same thing happened to me yesterday when i layered conditioner olive oil castor oil and olive oil to set my bantu knot outs. The only parts that turned the most white were the more low porous finer 4c areas of my hair. In other areas it wasnt as white. Olive oil is an anti humectant, castor oil is a humectant, to clarify.

The rough feeling of the strand again happens to all hairtypes when your hairs cortext is dehydrated. That is the feeling or your blocked hair cuticles reaching toward the atmosphere for moisture, and is the sole cause of frizz. They are doing this because the glycerin and other humectants you put in your hair, drew all the moisture from your hairs cortex to the top of the cuticle, eventually evaporating the moisture and leaving ur hair with nothing.

The fact your hair doesnt weigh down is also a sign you have low levels of water in your cortex. My hair used to have no weight to it, to the point where no matter how windy it was outside it would not move. The added weight of water in my cortex has now given me shakeable hair all day long even after my hair dries. This is moisture retention. Oil will never weigh down your hair unless it is a really heavy amount. But hair weighs down with water (unless it isnt absorbed and then evaporates after drying)


Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 07 2014 at 12:02am
Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that to me.
I think it is worth a try regardless, so I am open to this method.

So are you suggesting that glycerin in skincare products also eventually dehydrate the skin?


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 07 2014 at 5:28am
the hair is definetly more fragile than the skin. But yes, i believe if glycerin is the main ingredient, it could contribute to how fast your skin gets dry in the winter and low dew points. Your welcome, i really think this method will work for u. If u have any questions just ask me.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 15 2014 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

I did a strand test a long time ago but I am interested in doing another one.
My strands are rough when I glide my fingers up and down, they soaks up oil and product in a matter of minutes, it doesn't leave a white cast with many product except for Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie. Other products it just soaks up. That makes me feel like my hair is not low porosity.

The best way to explain it is that my hair is always thirsty. Also, it loves glycerin and very thick oils like castor oil etc. and never feels weighed down.



http://www.curlynikki.com/2011/08/how-to-find-your-hair-porosity-and.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.curlynikki.com/2011/08/how-to-find-your-hair-porosity-and.html
  1. Squeeze or blot excess moisture from your hair so that it is not dripping, but leave it as wet as possible.
  2. If it feels rough or has a “straw-like” texture, your hair is not very porous. (it's a sign of low porosity)
  3. If your hair simply feels wet, you have normal hair porosity.
  4. If your hair has high porosity, it will feel sticky, almost as if you had not washed all product out of your hair.



Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 11:17am
I don't know, i'm still not convinced. For example, low porosity hair would mean the cuticles lay very flat, which would encourage the hair to reflect light very well, no? My hair never shines or have a gloss and oil is very easily absorbed into my hair.

If i apply a heavy oil such as castor oil to my scalp and hair today, but tomorrow most of it will be gone. By day 3 my hair will need more castor oil. It is said that castor oil is not easily absorbed but My hair would say otherwise.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

I don't know, i'm still not convinced. For example, low porosity hair would mean the cuticles lay very flat, which would encourage the hair to reflect light very well, no? My hair never shines or have a gloss and oil is very easily absorbed into my hair.

If i apply a heavy oil such as castor oil to my scalp and hair today, but tomorrow most of it will be gone. By day 3 my hair will need more castor oil. It is said that castor oil is not easily absorbed but My hair would say otherwise.


The same thing happens to me. The reason castor oil is drying is the same reason glycerin and aloe vera juice, and coconut oil seem to zap quickly. They all have astringent properties.

That would be true if you had a looser texture, for tighter textures you get sheen, not shine. Either way you wont get sheen or shine without moisture retention and proper moisture absorption.

 Also, if your hair was high porous, then the methods you are doing now would be enough. Your hair would retain moisture fine doing what you have been doing now, and should look max hydrated. It's because your hair is low porous that introducing moisture to your hair is not possible using the methods you have been doing now. So even if you seal that moisture in, it is not properly penetrating the hair cortex, and will evaporate.

You wouldn't have frizz because you are using oils and sealants already. That lack of moisture absorption in the cortex causes many of the symptoms of 4c hair. I'm going to post an additional info here.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 12:21pm
Sheen, not shine



My hair now, treating it like it is low porosity, using methods to open up my cuticle.





Another before picture:


"Hair with a great deal of porosity has been found to be capable of absorbing significantly higher amounts of water than hair or normal or low porosity (up to 55%, in contrast with 31.1% for healthy hair). Excessive absorption of water from the atmosphere causes frizz and tangling on humid days. Total immersion of high porosity hair during bathing, swimming, or shampooing can lead to significant breakage due to loss of elasticity from the sheer weight of the water absorbed. It also takes on color much more quickly and in higher concentrations than normal porosity hair when undergoing a chemical color process."

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/visual-examples-of-textures-and-types-complete_topic326012_page1.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/visual-examples-of-textures-and-types-complete_topic326012_page1.html

This would mean your hair gets weighed down with water not just from the outside, but from the inside of the cortex. Your hair would feel gummy when wet a lot of the time, definition would be easier, and would stay wet longer when you seal with heavy butters like you have been now. The castor oil isnt being absorbed, that is it's astringent and humectant properties pulling moisture out of your hair, and then it evaporates. Then, you have a layer of the castor oil still on your hair, castor oil is just not oily in texture because of its astringent properties. It feels dry on its own, after the water is evaporated.



Posted By: Derri
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 12:23pm
Castor oil does not dry out my hair.
It absorbs in 2 days but it doesn't make it dry. I like thick heavy oils to make my strands have more slip because they knot and tangle easily.

I also do not manipulate my hair daily and i only wash and condition every 6 weeks or so because I keep my hair in braids under a wig or weave. I do take the wig down evey day and spray my hair with aloe vera juice mixed with olive oil. If my scalp feels dirty i just use a sulfate free shampoo and wash the braids lightly then condition lightly and let it dry then back to the wig.

On the day that I wash and deep condition i do a final condition with porosity control conditioner why makes my hair miraculously untangled, slippery, and i've noticed tbat it takes a longer time to dry as opposed to when i skip this step and my hair dries in 15 mins max.

Hmmmm...i don't know what is happening here.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Derri Derri wrote:

Castor oil does not dry out my hair.
It absorbs in 2 days but it doesn't make it dry. I like thick heavy oils to make my strands have more slip because they knot and tangle easily.

I also do not manipulate my hair daily and i only wash and condition every 6 weeks or so because I keep my hair in braids under a wig or weave. I do take the wig down evey day and spray my hair with aloe vera juice mixed with olive oil. If my scalp feels dirty i just use a sulfate free shampoo and wash the braids lightly then condition lightly and let it dry then back to the wig.

On the day that I wash and deep condition i do a final condition with porosity control conditioner why makes my hair miraculously untangled, slippery, and i've noticed tbat it takes a longer time to dry as opposed to when i skip this step and my hair dries in 15 mins max.

Hmmmm...i don't know what is happening here.


I didn't mean it makes the hair dry, i mean it feels different in texture. It isn't an oily texture like olive oil or shea butter. It's a drier texture like glycerin. By which i mean it is a less greasy oil. It's still greasy, but not like other oils. Either way your hair will end up dry by the time the water goes away. This can happen the longer you wear the style, and that is how all sealant behave. Oils can only lubricate, seal, and humectify. All of these properties are capable of working against moisture, no matter the oil or sealant. That's why build up is another thing that low porous hair suffers the most.

Castor better at sealing water than veg glycerin because it is thicker, so the evaporation of moisture happens slower, but it still happens. So if the oil isn't penetrating the strand you are only going to get conditioning effect until the wetness evaporates. Slip from oil is not as conditioning as slip from water, which is why you notice better results from DC. Deep conditioning is also in this regimen. I say do a strand test, and also try out this regimen. Just for a week. At the end of the day, it won't be bad to give it a shot.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 12:51pm
The regimen is all about manipulating your hair's porosity.

 First step Clarify. This step gets rid of build up blocking the hair cuticle from absorbing optimum water. If you choose to do bakingsoda, it lifts the cuticle, getting it prepared for absorption of conditioner.

If you do the acv step, it cleans the build up all the same. Then the cuticle gets lifted via heat by deep conditioning. The next step you deep condition overnight.

The heat from the shower cap opens up your cuticles. You can also steam. If you rather not dc overnight, then you apply watered down warm conditioner to your hair for 10 mins in a cap. But to do that, you have to choose the bakingsoda option, not acv option. Then the third step is cowash, in which you rinse out the DC and detangle as you do it.

After that, bentonite clay rinse. The bentonite clay reopens your cuticle, preparing for the leave in step. Your hair will also be further clarified, and feel super soft and curls will start to pop.

After that, is the leave in step. The watered down conditioner will readily absorb into your hair, and then you seal with a botanical, non drying gel. both the gel and conditioner will be a ph 4-5, so your cuticles will close in this last step as well.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 1:48pm
If you aren't convince, think about it like this. High porous hair cannot be permanently high porous unless it is due to damage. All hair's cuticle lifts out when it is dry and lacking fatty acids, that is part of what frizz actually is, it has nothing to do with your actual porosity, it's about dehydrated hair. Low porosity hair can feel this way even while it is wet. Because the moisture sits on top of the strand.

Frizz especially effects tighter hair since it has less ability to spread sebum down the whole hair strand. We address that issue by putting oils on our hair. But if that was the whole story, it would solve the problem, and you would already be having results that i am getting in the after pictures. But it isn't.

The other part has to do with lack of weight in the hair cortex. No weight = no clumping, and i'm going to explain this thoroughly in my next post below. This is caused by lack of water absorption into the hair strand. Even if you sealed with oil, it wouldn't do anything for you if you didn't have water absorption in the cortex to seal in.

So if your hair was high porous, this would not be a problem for you at all. In fact, you would be able to treat your hair like relaxed hair, and still get the results i am getting now. Your hair would thrive on silicones and sulfates, and build up of proteins and heavy oils including mineral oil. That would be enough and you would have max hydration.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Apr 19 2014 at 1:49pm
Reposting this here:



I already posted this but, take a good look at how compact the curls are. This is 4c hair, not 4a hair, and I never used to get root to tip definition in these areas before, if anything, only the tips would coil, and it would be and even more compact coil, that looked like a tube.


4c hair is the most compact, like a tube. 4a hair you can see spaces between the coil, and it's bigger. Also, when their is weight of product, it can form a big s curl, (not to be confused with the sharper zigzags of 4b hair) where as when 4c hair get weighed down it can look like more of a number 5, or a zigzag. In it's dehydrated state, it has the tendency to form random loopings among individual strands, making it less likely to clump. This is even more so an issue for 4b hair. I actually have some curls near my ear that are even tighter than a pen spring but still clump. As it grows longer and gets more retention it will probably clump better.

A visual of why 4c hair will not clump:

Compare the two strands after being put in water to the ones after being treated with baking-soda. Which one is more likely to want to fit together like a puzzle piece?


http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/11/myth-or-fact-baking-soda-relaxer.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/11/myth-or-fact-baking-soda-relaxer.html


Under soaked in water, the water likely did not penetrate the strand, just sat on top of it.

After bakingsoda treatment, the water is able to penetrate the strand because the tightly shut cuticles have been opened. This is the only effect baking-soda has on the hair cuticle, it does not change the curl pattern. The intake of water into the hair cortex increases weight of the hair strand, which is what all hair is meant to do in water, but low porosity 4c and 4b hair adamantly resists.

 Once the weight of the water is in the curl, the curl becomes more uniform. It is no longer so lightweight from lack of water retention in the cortex, that each individual strand over springs and loops upon itself randomly, which prevents clumping. The uniform curl that is meant to be there is created, making it easier for curl strand to want to clump together like puzzle pieces.



Posted By: juniordetective
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:21am
Just would like to point out...I'm type 4a and my hair has never really had an issue with wash n gos...I have always been able to just put some gel on my hair and go. Now, my roots weren't ALWAYS defined, but I would say about 80% of my curl (on an individual curl) was defined. 


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:26am
Many ppl with 4a are able to wash and goes, its really the 4b 4c community that believes their hair has no curl pattern. Most of this group is low porosity. I mention 4a too because some ppl have mixed textures, and some ppl have low porous 4a hair that tends to not define well either. Some ppl also very kinky but 3c hair. This would depend heavily on porosity. Someone with low porous 4a kinky hair is going to get different results that someone with higher porous 4a hair. Both of which ive seen.


Posted By: juniordetective
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:37am
This is my hair with and without product. 


Posted By: juniordetective
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:39am
Originally posted by pinkecube pinkecube wrote:

Many ppl with 4a are able to wash and goes, its really the 4b 4c community that believes their hair has no curl pattern. Most of this group is low porosity. I mention 4a too because some ppl have mixed textures, and some ppl have low porous 4a hair that tends to not define well either. Some ppl also very kinky but 3c hair. This would depend heavily on porosity. Someone with low porous 4a kinky hair is going to get different results that someone with higher porous 4a hair. Both of which ive seen.

Now with this method, do you think I would be able to get more definition at the roots even though I am 4a. Because the frizziness there, bugs me. Lol.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:48am
yes you would. I have 4a hair at my nape and they were the first area to reach max hydration. The main thread btw is is titled max hydration method. Page 72 has the full regimen.


Posted By: juniordetective
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 11:58am
Originally posted by pinkecube pinkecube wrote:

yes you would. I have 4a hair at my nape and they were the first area to reach max hydration. The main thread btw is is titled max hydration method. Page 72 has the full regimen.

Thanks! I am going to go really look into it, because this method seems fairly new.


Posted By: pinkecube
Date Posted: Jun 18 2014 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by juniordetective juniordetective wrote:

Originally posted by pinkecube pinkecube wrote:

yes you would. I have 4a hair at my nape and they were the first area to reach max hydration. The main thread btw is is titled max hydration method. Page 72 has the full regimen.

Thanks! I am going to go really look into it, because this method seems fairly new.


Your welcome!


Posted By: Muysana
Date Posted: Feb 01 2015 at 11:20pm
Hi Pinkecube!!!

Thank you for all the valuable info that you have generously shared!!!

I am going to do the MHM ASAP! I  need to color some grays with henna and indigo.

I'd like to know if I should do the henna first before starting the MHM?

I see that the KCKT is used diluted.  Is the KCCC  diluted or used full strength?

Thank you very much!!!

Muysana


Posted By: kwicherbichen
Date Posted: Feb 06 2015 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Muysana Muysana wrote:

Hi Pinkecube!!!

Thank you for all the valuable info that you have generously shared!!!

I am going to do the MHM ASAP! I  need to color some grays with henna and indigo.

I'd like to know if I should do the henna first before starting the MHM?

I see that the KCKT is used diluted.  Is the KCCC  diluted or used full strength?

Thank you very much!!!

Muysana

Hey Muysana! I personally had to dilute KCCC at first because it flakes way too much. I had to dilute it QUITE A BIT. After doing MHM for several months, I no longer need to dilute it. Experiment with your own hair and see :) 


Posted By: Muysana
Date Posted: Feb 06 2015 at 8:58pm
kwicherbichen,

Thank you very much!  I will experiment with this.


Muysana


Posted By: CurlyKelz
Date Posted: Mar 14 2015 at 9:52am
Hi, I am Kelly-Ann. My handle on Youtube is CurlyKelz and my videos are posted here.
First, its really cool to see my name and videos here! Wow :)

Second, I hate the word "Nappy". This is a word coined by White slave owners to describe the hair our of Ancestors; who had the misfortune of being owned like cattle with no rights or sense of identity. Its a bad word and is just as hurtful as the N-word.

To actually believe that "nappy" hair exists is not only sad but disturbing. No one has "Nappy" hair. Some people have dry hair due to using products with the wrong ingredients. I was once one of those people. If you don't believe me, you can check out the earlier videos on my Youtube channel. I was not a curly girl back then. I was using products with silicones, parabens, sulphates. These dry out our hair and turn our naturally curly hair into frizzy hair or what some sad people call "Nappy" hair. When I cut those ingredients out of my hair regiment, my frizzy hair turned to curls...tight, lovely curls. The sad part is, people who come up to me and ask about my hair ALWAYS insist I  must be mixed! Its quite offensive. This insinuates that people of pure African heritage, cannot have lovely curly hair. Its a lie! We have GREAT hair.

Before I go, I'd like to encourage everyone to love their curls. Do not pine over "elongated" curls. There's nothing wrong with tight curls. All curls are lovely! 




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