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For all the Believer turned Agnostics and Athiests

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Printed Date: Dec 14 2017 at 6:57pm


Topic: For all the Believer turned Agnostics and Athiests
Posted By: ModelessDiva
Subject: For all the Believer turned Agnostics and Athiests
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 7:44pm





What led you to agnosticism, or if you were born following no specific religion what is the reason you never choose to?

I'm not just talking about Christianity, I mean religion period.


If you don't believe in God at all, what is the reason?

Bad experience, feelings of isolation, or just plain dislike of organized religion ?


I will not be debating with anyone btw. So share whatever you feel. I'd like to hear the different POVs this time without debating.







Replies:
Posted By: loveandpeace1984
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 7:52pm
Interesting thread.


Posted By: Lady ICE
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:02pm
i'd like to know also.

Geek


Posted By: Sang Froid
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:09pm
I don't have a reason for not believing in God.
Nothing bad has ever happened to me.
I just simply don't and religion was never a part of my life really....I enjoy learning about it though.


Posted By: maysay1
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:09pm
Several reasons...a few of the most important ones...

1. The characteristics attributed to the christian god didn't make sense and/or were contradictory. The biggest issue I had was that god is supposed to love me as his child, yet set up a billion obstacles so that I will fall and ultimately he gets to burn me up forever. I wouldn't accept that type of "love" from a parent or a friend, so I couldn't accept it from god.

2. I never had true faith in god/the bible. There are many things that I have 100% faith in, things I KNOW to be true...and yet I never had that same feeling about religion/god/christianity/the bible.

3. I realized that I just wanted to be an instrument of love and good and peace and kindness...and that directly contradicts certain things that are in the bible (or at least the christian interpretation of them).


Posted By: f8dagrate
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Sang Froid Sang Froid wrote:

I don't have a reason for not believing in God.
Nothing bad has ever happened to me.
I just simply don't and religion was never a part of my life really....I enjoy learning about it though.


I thought u were a an atheist?


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by ModelessDiva ModelessDiva wrote:



What led you to agnosticism, or if you were born following no specific religion what is the reason you never choose to?

I just don't believe in Jesus' existence, let alone divinity. Ironic? Christmas is my favorite holiday. While I don't believe in Jesus, I find the music/lyrics made in his honor or love of him amazing. Also, how people care more for each other. It's what I wish all year round. I find it magical.

I'm not just talking about Christianity, I mean religion period.


If you don't believe in God at all, what is the reason? For me, it's faith. I never stopped believeing. Although, my belief =\= proof. As an Agnostic Theist, I accept that. You may want to amend the title to include atheists for more answers here.

Bad experience, feelings of isolation, or just plain dislike of organized religion ?


I will not be debating with anyone btw. So share whatever you feel. I'd like to hear the different POVs this time without debating. I wish you luck here. To BHM, to listen is to automatically agree and there's always a definite right and wrong answer. There is no grey/gray.



Posted By: beebeexx
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:17pm
I just grew to have less and less confidence in the bible.
then I saw the first part of zeitgeist and that made me go hmmm...

but mostly religion no longer "makes sense" to me.
sure god may exist but I don't think the human mind is able of comprehending its true nature.
we want an all powerful benevolent omniscient god. that makes things neat. but just because that's what we want doesn't make it true.


Posted By: SoutherNtellect
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:19pm
"i dunno"


Posted By: ModelessDiva
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:21pm





Neka I was going to also put atheist in the title...idk why I didn't...

I'll go back and change it thanks.



Posted By: BBpants
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:23pm
I couldn't get into it. I tried to pray and believe but I felt it was a waste of time.


Posted By: Sang Froid
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by f8dagrate f8dagrate wrote:

Originally posted by Sang Froid Sang Froid wrote:

I don't have a reason for not believing in God.
Nothing bad has ever happened to me.
I just simply don't and religion was never a part of my life really....I enjoy learning about it though.


I thought u were a an atheist?

Her questions asked about not believing in God at all.


Posted By: ModelessDiva
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by BBpants BBpants wrote:

I couldn't get into it. I tried to pray and believe but I felt it was a waste of time.




hmmm interesting....


Posted By: ms_wonderland
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:29pm
Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.


Posted By: ModelessDiva
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:34pm


Interesting answers so far guys thank you

esp maysay and Beebeex(sp?) answers



Posted By: ModelessDiva
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:

Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.



also interesting thanks!

eta: I think the majority might feel this way. I've heard a lot of people express these same thoughts..


Posted By: india100
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:37pm
Good topic . Please forgive me if I say God bless to anyone in the topic on occasion . I only recall a few members that are Athiest from previous topics . I will never say I am Praying for you in a malice way , knowing your choice . I see a few people already that I have prayed for in the past During a difficult time without any knowledge of your faith in God or lack of . HTMS . Smile


Posted By: CuteNSweet
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:

Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.



I feel this way about Christianity and organized religion myself.  I also don't understand why/how so many black people are Christians simply b/c it was a religion that was used in colonialism. Lately I struggle with the is there a God thing.  I think it has a lot to do with the things I'm going through, me continually praying and asking for help and not getting it I guess how I thought I would.  However, at the end of the day I feel like something greater than us had to make all of this.  I don't buy the big bang theory really not for creation of the first anything.  I feel like something superior had to make the first thing period for any of it to be in existence. 


Posted By: Random Thoughts
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:

Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.


I think its because black americans were stripped of so much identity during the slave trade, they had to turn to something that they could have as their own. Religion can encompass so much. Literacy. Fashion. Music. Family tradition. Food. Economics. And above all else, comfort. I think the black church is something rich and strong that black americans have to be proud of. It's been passed down from generation to generation, and elders of the family cherish it so much, that I think many feel risk of being cut off from family and their own culture if they question it.



Posted By: ms_wonderland
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by Random Thoughts Random Thoughts wrote:


Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:

Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.


I think its because black americans were stripped of so much identity during the slave trade, they had to turn to something that they could have as their own. Religion can encompass so much. Literacy. Fashion. Music. Family tradition. Food. Economics. And above all else, comfort. I think the black church is something rich and strong that black americans have to be proud of. It's been passed down from generation to generation, and elders of the family cherish it so much, that I think many feel risk of being cut off from family and their own culture if they question it.



I think that sums up the reason...it's expected...but that's not really faith or Christianity...that must be why ppl have so many bad experiences with baptist churches. People there are not being honest with themselves.


Posted By: ModelessDiva
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 8:47pm
I forgot to ask what exactly is an agnostic theist??

Originally posted by nekamarie83 nekamarie83 wrote:

Originally posted by ModelessDiva ModelessDiva wrote:



What led you to agnosticism, or if you were born following no specific religion what is the reason you never choose to?

I just don't believe in Jesus' existence, let alone divinity. Ironic? Christmas is my favorite holiday. While I don't believe in Jesus, I find the music/lyrics made in his honor or love of him amazing. Also, how people care more for each other. It's what I wish all year round. I find it magical.

I'm not just talking about Christianity, I mean religion period.


If you don't believe in God at all, what is the reason? For me, it's faith. I never stopped believeing. Although, my belief =\= proof. As an Agnostic Theist, I accept that. You may want to amend the title to include atheists for more answers here.

Bad experience, feelings of isolation, or just plain dislike of organized religion ?


I will not be debating with anyone btw. So share whatever you feel. I'd like to hear the different POVs this time without debating. I wish you luck here. To BHM, to listen is to automatically agree and there's always a definite right and wrong answer. There is no grey/gray.



Posted By: aNgElIc*SoUl
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by BBpants BBpants wrote:

I couldn't get into it. I tried to pray and believe but I felt it was a waste of time.


This, and bad things still continued to happen to me, so I just said fukk it.


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by ModelessDiva ModelessDiva wrote:


Neka I was going to also put atheist in the title...idk why I didn't...

I'll go back and change it thanks.
I'm so, so late. You're welcome.


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by ModelessDiva ModelessDiva wrote:

I forgot to ask what exactly is an agnostic theist??
In its most simple terms I believe in a deity (theism) but I don't have certain proof that said deity exists (agnosticism).

Eta: because I can't c/p just the pic--

http://www.atheistrev.com/2011/09/atheist-or-agnostic-i-both.html?m=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.atheistrev.com/2011/09/atheist-or-agnostic-i-both.html?m=1


Posted By: Katrenia
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:24pm
Isn't religion a man made institution??
Christ didn't have a specific religion so I often wonder where all these religions got their origins?
I don't believe in religion because I can't place my trust in man. 
I like the teachings of Christ however most religions are not all based on being Christ like.




Posted By: Lonisha87
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:

Too many inconsistencies, too many contradictions, the facts on the creation, incorrect interpretations, and edits of the bible...too much of religion is based on propaganda...whatever social agenda was relevant at that time.

But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right. Tbh, im more curious about why so many black people are unwavering in their Christianity and not agnostic or athiest. I think there's one God and nO matter what we believe we are all praying to the same one.
pretty much this. I am always eager to learn about different religions and such. I married a (not practicing atm) Jehovah's Witness and attend services every now and then with his family and its not bad, going to a Christian church this Sunday and learning more about Islam cuz one of my brothers is seriously thinking about converting after much studying. I'm always open to learning about other religions, I just don't know what to believe myself.


Posted By: dazed&
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:05pm
Because I just don't see why we have to believe in something that there is no evidence of. Why can't we just be... In regards to christianity, I just see the Bible as a book that has taken over billions of people. and I just can't get with the inconsistencies.


Posted By: EPITOME
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:14pm
god is too big to be encompassed in one religion
and i find that churches are often like there is ONE way and that is what we are preaching
but in the bible god used unbelievers to achieve his work as well.

I equate religion to this quote about the human brain

If the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it. Emerson Pugh.


Posted By: Lonisha87
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:27pm
Watching a Documentary on the documentary channel about The history of African Americans in the Mormon church. It's crazy interesting. You guys should check it out.


Posted By: Gkisses
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:38pm
Like most it started with basic questions that I would ask my mom that she didnt have answers to.  She told me that she had the same questions growing up and her mom would tell her to read the bible. I did and came away with more questions. Stayed with my grams (my moms mother) and started asking her since she was going to church 7 days a week i just knew she would have the answers.....But her response wasAngry and she made me transcribe the bible ...Cry I was fairly young at that time. She told me by asking questions i wasnt giving him a chance to enter my heart  blah blah....

So for years I tried I felt nothing I got baptized  because i thought maybe that would help... but if im being 100% honest I just wanted to get in that pool.Ouch My dads side of the fam isnt religious and because of the pressure put on my mom she refuse to raise us the same way. When i hit my early teens I told my mom why i didnt want to go to church and my reasons. After that i begin to read  up on various religions but nothing really drew me in but wicca came close. When I discovered Agnostics it just seemed right for me. If for some reason I decided to enter the realm of wonder I would be come a UU.


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 10:40pm
repost


Posted By: mommykat
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:33pm
The Cosmological Aquinas's Argument or the Ontological…or A priori knowledge etc...


Posted By: beebeexx
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by mommykat mommykat wrote:

The Cosmological Aquinas's Argument or the Ontological…or A priori knowledge etc...


those are arguments for the existence of god... how did they contribute to your disbelief?



Posted By: katakana89
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:44pm
good thread


Posted By: mommykat
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by beebeexx beebeexx wrote:


Originally posted by mommykat mommykat wrote:

The Cosmological Aquinas's Argument or the Ontological…or A priori knowledge etc...


those are arguments for the existence of god... how did they contribute to your disbelief?




This is true....
I do not disbelieve--- I do not know...



Posted By: mommykat
Date Posted: Feb 28 2013 at 11:57pm
If you argue that, everything confirms God’s existence then evidence does not support the conclusion. You would have to close your eyes to evil in the world. I will end this here and Now...



Posted By: K_Camille
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 12:13am
What Random Thoughts said about alienation from family. 

I never believed in God; never "felt" him as the others said they did.  I got baptized because I thought it would please my mom.  I tried to believe and I tried to feel something but I walked away empty every time.  I grew tired of watching preachers not exemplify what they preached, tired of the hypocrisy.  I also could not shake the fact that the bible was man written and couldn't believe it wasn't altered in some form. 

I realized the bible was something my whole family believed in, but I didn't.  My family assumes I believe, just like many black people assume we all are by default.  I don't tell them otherwise.  Besides, I really don't think we're that different aside from the religious aspect.  I do believe humans were created but I don't believe it is as deep as people think.


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 12:51am
I didn't have any bad experiences with the church when I was practicing.  I think when I lived in Japan, I started to meet other people who didn't believe the same thing I did.  I realized I was living in an atheist society that didn't need religion to help them decide what was right or wrong.  Good and bad things happened to them, whether they prayed or not.  So then I began to question everything I believed to be true about my religion.  I sat down and I read the bible again, from cover to cover and I was shocked by the things the church never mentioned about what was in there.  I began to wonder, of the 2,000+ gods that have been worshiped by humankind, why was I praying to this one?  And then I realized how this religion was that of the people who enslaved my ancestors and it was only used as a vice to keep slaves subservient.  I was frustrated when I read the bible and saw many things that were scientifically impossible and not only were those I asked not giving me the answers I needed, they were making it up as they were trying to explain.  When I became an (agnostic) Atheist, it was the first time in my life I felt okay about not knowing the answers and not only being okay with that, but I didn't have to wait on a deity who MIGHT or MIGHT NOT ever tell me.


Posted By: SweetNovember*
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:35am
Not to generalize, but it seems a lot of atheists are angry with God, which doesn't make sense to me because you can't be angry at something that doesn't exist. I think a lot of people don't understand how God works which is why they lose faith when they feel their life isn't going the way they feel they deserve. 

I am trying to learn more about God.


Posted By: OoDles O
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:45am
No disrespect to any of my fellow constituents here

but honestly...

I'm Just to damn old to be believing that there's some sort of Ethereal ass ny99a just chilling in another realm answering prayers , granting wishes, directly or indirectly.... its just silly

Anyways at the barber shop today.. this dude found out that he's getting 1400 back on his taxes right... Before that a bird swooped in and shyt on him.... TRUE STORY.

This Ny99a is like.... " I KNEW IT... THE BIRD SHYTTING ON ME IS A SIGN "

I just laugh... cause its funny to me ... not in an elitist way .. but just funny how people come up with ANY ol reason to try and make sense of this world.


Posted By: beebeexx
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:00am
Originally posted by SweetNovember* SweetNovember* wrote:

Not to generalize, but it seems a lot of atheists are angry with God, which doesn't make sense to me because you can't be angry at something that doesn't exist. I think a lot of people don't understand how God works which is why they lose faith when they feel their life isn't going the way they feel they deserve. 

I am trying to learn more about God.


please read this in the most noncombattive tone possible. Big smile
you can be angry at being offered the false idea of something.
you can also be angry at wanting to believe and not being able to for assorted reasons
and tbh "understanding how god works" to me is just accepting circular self-serving and preserving logic.


Posted By: CLCNY20
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:03am
I went to a Christian school when I was younger, and they abused us there (physical/verbal/emotional violence...I don't even want to know how many kids they may have driven to kill themselves later on in life, or have put into therapy at least...they really messed with our minds).  They then lied to our parents about bruises and scars.  It didn't help that we were based underneath a church, and we were being taught that if you lie (especially in church) God would strike you down...yet they were still walking amongst the living after lying to our parents about blood on our clothing.
My mother was also physically/verbally/emotionally abusive towards me growing up, and would then go to church and raise the church hand with her eyes closed like the holy ghost was flowing through her...then return home to beat me for reasons still unknown.
 
I had other relatives who were the same--beating cousins damn near to death, and then pretending to be good little Christians or Catholics the next Sunday.
 
Also, the craziest fanatics I know with bloodlust in their eyes are all highly religious.  In contrast, the most generous/kindest/loyal people I know are either Agnostic or Atheist.  Could be coincidence, but I don't think so.
 
I'm Agnostic, 100%, but I do believe in God.  I have my reasons for believing in his existance, but I wholeheartedly respect those who choose not to believe in him; I know how easy it is to see one horrible thing after another after another happening around you, and feel there just can't be a God, because why would he allow that to happen to his "children"?


Posted By: SweetNovember*
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:10am
Originally posted by beebeexx beebeexx wrote:

Originally posted by SweetNovember* SweetNovember* wrote:

Not to generalize, but it seems a lot of atheists are angry with God, which doesn't make sense to me because you can't be angry at something that doesn't exist. I think a lot of people don't understand how God works which is why they lose faith when they feel their life isn't going the way they feel they deserve. 

I am trying to learn more about God.


please read this in the most noncombattive tone possible. Big smile
you can be angry at being offered the false idea of something.
you can also be angry at wanting to believe and not being able to for assorted reasons
and tbh "understanding how god works" to me is just accepting circular self-serving and preserving logic.

The only thing I can really say is to study it for yourself if you have the interest because there are a lot of blatantly non-biblical things that are being taught in churches and there are a lot of people claiming to represent him who do not in actuality. You can't go by what you hear because a lot of people who claim to love God don't know anything about him or don't really believe. If you study it and you don't agree or believe then that's one thing but don't let someone else's behavior or logic turn you off if you haven't studied for yourself.


Posted By: Gkisses
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:14am
I agree you cant be angry at something you dont believe exist. I personally hold ppl accountable for their actions. Good or bad...not "god" or the "devil"..One of the biggest misconceptions about many A/As is that there must of been some traumatic that lead them there. It is true for some but not many. Usually those who do turned to A/A go back to some spiritual calling (at least in my experience). Me opting out of religion had nothing to do with not being given the life I felt I deserved because my life was/is fine.


Posted By: SweetNovember*
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:24am
I wasn't trying to imply that atheists had more problems or anything like that but I have seen some comments in here that alluded to life to not being fair in general and that being a part their reasoning for not believing in a higher power. The thing is that churches do lie and a lot of people preach things that simply aren't in the Bible for their own gain or because they simply don't know so I think most people have a warped view of who God claims to be. 

I'm not professing to know everything or anything. I take Bible class and that helps but there are still some things that even deeply religious and knowledgeable people disagree on and I can't really form a solid belief until I study for myself.


Posted By: **Sk!TtLeS B**
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 2:34am
I was never feeling the Christian and/or Biblical interpretation of anything really, and I felt it even less the more I went to church and read the bible. All of the "bad experiences" I've had in church didnt help me form an opposing opinion, but rather help solidify the one I had already formed. 

I do believe in a God, though. So I guess I'm like Neka in the "agnostic theist" boat. 


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 3:01am
id love to read this thread but my apatheism is kicking in big time


Posted By: OoDles O
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 3:15am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

id love to read this thread but my apatheism is kicking in big time

lmao


Posted By: SweetNovember*
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 3:53am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

id love to read this thread but my apatheism is kicking in big time

I just had to look this up. I think this is an accurate description of many/most Americans.


Posted By: Naturalchick30
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 4:27am


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 5:01am
Originally posted by SweetNovember* SweetNovember* wrote:

Not to generalize, but it seems a lot of atheists are angry with God, which doesn't make sense to me because you can't be angry at something that doesn't exist. I think a lot of people don't understand how God works which is why they lose faith when they feel their life isn't going the way they feel they deserve. 

I am trying to learn more about God.


Who implied they were angry? Confused


Posted By: SweetNovember*
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 5:07am
Maybe I should have said "disappointed". But I do sense a general tone of jadedness or bitterness from atheists when religion is brought up that runs counter to the disinterest one would expect. I'm not trying to start an argument though.

ETA: And I didn't say angry in general. I said angry with God.


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 5:48am
Originally posted by SweetNovember* SweetNovember* wrote:

Maybe I should have said "disappointed". But I do sense a general tone of jadedness or bitterness from atheists when religion is brought up that runs counter to the disinterest one would expect. I'm not trying to start an argument though.

ETA: And I didn't say angry in general. I said angry with God.


Bitterness?  Again.  Where are you getting this from?

Could we say that college students or graduates are "disappointed" with their high school education because they sought to learn more about their world? 

You may not be trying to have a debate, but you are making an awful lot of assumptions about how atheists feel.


Posted By: BBpants
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 6:08am
Bitter atheist....

"Hmmm interesting......"




Posted By: loveandpeace1984
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 6:26am
When Bret Hart lost to Shawn Michaels in 1996 wrestlemania


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 6:53am
Originally posted by loveandpeace1984 loveandpeace1984 wrote:

When Bret Hart lost to Shawn Michaels in 1996 wrestlemania
I'd appreciate if ur views were consistent.  You're other screen name was a devout christian Confused  


Posted By: loveandpeace1984
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 7:04am
It was a joke bunny but for real I been agnostic for a while reviewing my beliefs since my last ban(the ban had nothing to do with it) . I'm just keeping it real.


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 7:10am
okay , welcome to the bright side Thumbs Up


Posted By: EPITOME
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 7:13am
oh so a debate happened....


Posted By: loveandpeace1984
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 7:27am
You know a debate was coming around the third page


Posted By: kfoxx1998
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 8:43am
Angry / Bitter more accurately describes those who feel let down by God and therefore actually accept the concept of deities after all.   For me personally I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the topic of religion but sometimes the religious make me a little madEmbarrassed

My experience was a lot like Tokyo's except the part about being in Japan LOL.

I guess we would both also say that there was a LOT of reading.  Reading the entire bible from cover to cover is the surest way to lose your religion.  And don't do it more than once because the 2nd time through is when you actually do get angryConfused.  You just feel lied to.   As a adult you see the actions of both the deity and the people for what they are.  You also start to hear the voices of those religious zealots and politicians who were the actual writers trying to shape the minds of the world.  Then you discover all of the redactions and start to wonder "what were they trying to hide / add to the story?"

If you move your questions and reading to outside of the bible to history and also study other religions the whole thing just starts to unravel before your eyes.  Logically, emotionally, morally, ethically, etc., etc.  

I used to think they were clever but now I'm thinking more that people were just struggling and not very well educated thereby allowing those politicians to take advantage of them.   Not that they couldn't read / interpret for themselves but uneducated because only a very few were even allowed to have a copy of the bible.  Until the priesthood and the king had a proper system in place to "interpret" to important parts reading the bible was dangerous without the aid of clergy. So much like exactly what's going on today.   The majority would post a comment under the bible that says tl/drLOL 

One thing I wish religious people understood it that it is also saddening to find out something you believed in so strong you can now only consider a fairy tale.  I tried so hard in the denial phase to hold on to some of the faith I knew for so many years but it eventually became just silly.  Once I got over that I had to work on my entire world view.  

I really want to add a quote that sums up my views today but as a former Christian I know it sounds too harsh.  I'll just say I feel sorry for the character called "God" because for as much as "he" gets credit for things humans do, "he" gets blame for just as much.  Kind of unfair but since I don't believe in deities I think he'll be okay.  




Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 8:56am
I believe in God & love him, but I wonder about people who know nothing at all about him at no fault of their own. Like if you live in the forest in some 3rd world country with no t.v. or newspapers or never interacted with anybody outside of your culture to tell you about him, what will happen to their souls? Will they go to hell simply because they haven't been exposed to it? It's little stuff like that I think about alot.


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:02am
Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

I believe in God & love him, but I wonder about people who know nothing at all about him at no fault of their own. Like if you live in the forest in some 3rd world country with no t.v. or newspapers or never interacted with anybody outside of your culture to tell you about him, what will happen to their souls? Will they go to hell simply because they haven't been exposed to it? It's little stuff like that I think about alot.
see, this is one of the reasons why it can't be real to meConfused 


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:06am
I believe their is a God but, that's where it stops for me. I don't go to church or read the bible. I just treat people they way I want to be treated.


Posted By: Random Thoughts
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:07am
Originally posted by loveandpeace1984 loveandpeace1984 wrote:

When Bret Hart lost to Shawn Michaels in 1996 wrestlemania


I remember marking out as a kid when that happened.




Posted By: Random Thoughts
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:08am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

I believe in God & love him, but I wonder about people who know nothing at all about him at no fault of their own. Like if you live in the forest in some 3rd world country with no t.v. or newspapers or never interacted with anybody outside of your culture to tell you about him, what will happen to their souls? Will they go to hell simply because they haven't been exposed to it? It's little stuff like that I think about alot.


The Bible tells you what happens to them. Since u believe and love God so much, pick up the Good Book and read his word more often to find out these answers.


You're doing what turns so many people away. Blaming them.

Why don't you give the answers and scripture?


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:11am
Great thread guys. No arguing really. Hmmmm....I have been an atheist for quite a long time. As a child growing up in a very religious family, I really didn't think about whether there was a god or not. It was a given. As I grew older and started meeting different people from different religions, I realized that there was a choice. It was there that I realized I never, ever felt some connection with a god. I never had these experiences others claim to have had. It wasn't until I met other atheists in college that I finally accepted that I really just didn't believe. 


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:12am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

id love to read this thread but my apatheism is kicking in big time
I hate you for this. I laughed and coughed at the same time and made the worst of sounds…

Too clever though.


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:17am
It's always our fault for not getting to know God & realize how much he loves us it's the same judgemental holier than thou behavior that turns people away.


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:21am
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I'll just say I feel sorry for the character called "God" because for as much as "he" gets credit for things humans do, "he" gets blame for just as much.  Kind of unfair but since I don't believe in deities I think he'll be okay.  



Pretty much! Great post from you and Tokyo. See reading the Bible doesn't give me this feeling of awe. It reminds me of reading the great Greek mythologies. I also feel that humans are always looking for a raison d'être. Religion gives us this purpose.
Sometimes I question whether the term "atheist" is really what I am. It is much easier to claim that term because I don't really care. I will say this, if there is a "thing" outside of ourselves, it is much bigger than we can imagine. And since I feel this way, I also do not give this thing human attributes. Religions tend to do this. I guess it is "all in his image" thing. Gods are always like super-humans...which sounds ridiculous to me.  I also have an issue with this sexist "father figure" religions tend to be entrenched in. I am going off on a tangent...LOL



Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:26am
I like your posts freedom!


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:26am
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I really want to add a quote that sums up my views today but as a former Christian I know it sounds too harsh.  I'll just say I feel sorry for the character called "God" because for as much as "he" gets credit for things humans do, "he" gets blame for just as much.  Kind of unfair but since I don't believe in deities I think he'll be okay.
Thank you kfoxx!! While I'm usually willing to listen to people's POV, these points irritate the shït out of me!! Where do some people get off treating God like a genie of unlimited wishes? I can only speak for myself, but I was always taught that God helps those that help themselves. While I may feel "divinely" inspired to do xyz, I still have to put in work to realize reward. It's the internal locus of control.

Other thing that bugs me, blaming God for things that go wrong and awful people in the world. We are a race of beings with free will. People need to take responsibility for their actions. After that, people need only to treat others as they would want to be treated. Neither of the former require a deity

Apologies… 'cause I'm just venting.


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:28am
Originally posted by babyk94 babyk94 wrote:

I like your posts freedom!

Thank You!Embarrassed


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:35am
I also like what random posted about the black culture being so religiously inclined. Made me think of "The Color Purple"-- Bash Mister's head open and think about Heaven later…. Our ancestors new to this land were given religion as another form of oppression. It was to justify slavery, create shame and keep a people docile. However, as with much meant to keep us down, our people found a message of hope. To know that there would be a time when their bondage would end, to know that suffering is temporary and that heaven lasts always. It's hard to just walk away from something that many feel has inspired, lifted, comforted them.


Posted By: BrownQtee
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Random Thoughts Random Thoughts wrote:

Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

I believe in God & love him, but I wonder about people who know nothing at all about him at no fault of their own. Like if you live in the forest in some 3rd world country with no t.v. or newspapers or never interacted with anybody outside of your culture to tell you about him, what will happen to their souls? Will they go to hell simply because they haven't been exposed to it? It's little stuff like that I think about alot.


The Bible tells you what happens to them. Since u believe and love God so much, pick up the Good Book and read his word more often to find out these answers.


You're doing what turns so many people away. Blaming them.

Why don't you give the answers and scripture?
 
I think I like you Embarrassed
 
My thoughts exactly.


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

I believe in God & love him, but I wonder about people who know nothing at all about him at no fault of their own. Like if you live in the forest in some 3rd world country with no t.v. or newspapers or never interacted with anybody outside of your culture to tell you about him, what will happen to their souls? Will they go to hell simply because they haven't been exposed to it? It's little stuff like that I think about alot.


The Bible tells you what happens to them. Since u believe and love God so much, pick up the Good Book and read his word more often to find out these answers.


Why the tone though? You always act so superior when having these discussions. For you to be so wordly and smart I'd think you knew better than this. And my walk is my walk. I'm not on no time table for some know it all douche bag.


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:38am
I see why people don't like talking about religion, it's always that one person who has to bring attitude into the mixture when it's not even necessary.


Posted By: CuteNSweet
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:47am
Originally posted by nekamarie83 nekamarie83 wrote:

Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I really want to add a quote that sums up my views today but as a former Christian I know it sounds too harsh.  I'll just say I feel sorry for the character called "God" because for as much as "he" gets credit for things humans do, "he" gets blame for just as much.  Kind of unfair but since I don't believe in deities I think he'll be okay.
Thank you kfoxx!! While I'm usually willing to listen to people's POV, these points irritate the shït out of me!! Where do some people get off treating God like a genie of unlimited wishes? I can only speak for myself, but I was always taught that God helps those that help themselves. While I may feel "divinely" inspired to do xyz, I still have to put in work to realize reward. It's the internal locus of control.

Other thing that bugs me, blaming God for things that go wrong and awful people in the world. We are a race of beings with free will. People need to take responsibility for their actions. After that, people need only to treat others as they would want to be treated. Neither of the former require a deity

Apologies… 'cause I'm just venting.


What about things that are out of your human control?   In my case I did all I could humanly possible to help myself.   Like I hear that God knows what's going to happen before it does.   How does God choose who gets inflicted with an illness that leaves them and their lives upside down? How does God choose who suffers and why would such a loving, awesome, healing God be like this?


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:51am
Romans 15:21 (KJV)
21 but as it is written:
“To whom He was not announced, they shall see:
And those who have not heard shall understand.”


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 9:51am
Nah Positive, you're actually coming across as judgmental. Like Random said, people like you are the problem. Pretend to have all the answers but can't dialog effectively. You're response was uncalled for no matter how you try to slice it and dice it. I never said I was a an uber christian, I'm just a believer.


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:00am
Lol Positive that did come off rude why not just give an answer instead of you saying if you love god so much pick up a bible. I mean really?......  


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

Nah Positive, you're actually coming across as judgmental. Like Random said, people like you are the problem. Pretend to have all the answers but can't dialog effectively. You're response was uncalled for no matter how you try to slice it and dice it. I never said I was a an uber christian, I'm just a believer.


From your tone, I can tell you aren't that deep in the Word yourself. YOU are the problem.


How deep in the word are you? If you were as deep in it as you act, you would be talking from a place of love, not "I'm smarter than you & you should already know this" pov.


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:01am
Christians, Stop this fighting at once!LOL Ya'll are supposed to be arguing with us heathens!


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:02am
What good is having read the bible or your religious text of choice if you don't know how to walk in love & address people in a respectable manner? 


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by babyk94 babyk94 wrote:

Lol Positive that did come off rude why not just give an answer instead of you saying if you love god so much pick up a bible. I mean really?......  


That question was very elementary. Something u learn when you are 10. I'm not sure she really is a Christian or just a person that was raised to believe in Jesus.

And if she was? Does that change anything? I thought Christians are supposed to go out and teach the word. You are acting trollish right now.


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:03am
rofl!  I can't believe yall are taking pastor positive k's posts seriouslyLOL


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:04am
Well I could say I'm not sure you're a christian going to gay clubs and having sex with women you aren't even married to. But I'm not going to because I'm not a person that condemns people. This conversation alone is partly why people chose to shy away any thing related to God.


Posted By: nekamarie83
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:05am
Originally posted by CuteNSweet CuteNSweet wrote:

What about things that are out of your human control?   In my case I did all I could humanly possible to help myself.   Like I hear that God knows what's going to happen before it does.   How does God choose who gets inflicted with an illness that leaves them and their lives upside down? How does God choose who suffers and why would such a loving, awesome, healing God be like this?
That's more of a believer question. I don't know that God chooses people to be sick or to suffer nor of a rationale behind such choices. And I view many illnesses as genetic flaw or mutation. It's random.

Originally posted by Bunnyahh Bunnyahh wrote:

rofl!  I can't believe yall are taking pastor positive k's posts seriouslyLOL
This.


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

Originally posted by babyk94 babyk94 wrote:

Lol Positive that did come off rude why not just give an answer instead of you saying if you love god so much pick up a bible. I mean really?......  


That question was very elementary. Something u learn when you are 10. I'm not sure she really is a Christian or just a person that was raised to believe in Jesus.
That is irrevelant if you know the answer than be kind and answer isn't that what christians are supposed to do? Spread the word with love


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Bunnyahh Bunnyahh wrote:

rofl!  I can't believe yall are taking pastor positive k's posts seriouslyLOL

AhhhhEmbarrassed...Dang PK.....that isn't nice.


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Bunnyahh Bunnyahh wrote:

rofl!  I can't believe yall are taking pastor positive k's posts seriouslyLOL
LMFAO yeah you're right!!!!! lol


Posted By: loveandpeace1984
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:07am
This is why I do not talk to many Christians. The arrogance, pride, lusts of the flesh, the self importance, the me attitude, etc is contradictory to who Christ was. No wonder you have to threaten people with hell all the time because that's your only cowardly weapon.


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

What good is having read the bible or your religious text of choice if you don't know how to walk in love & address people in a respectable manner? 


The bible is supposed to teach you HOW to walk that walk. 


Posted By: Naturalchick30
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

lol aight imma stop...yall kno i aint no damn pastor
LOL


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

lol aight imma stop...yall kno i aint no damn pastor

Clown


Posted By: Finesseful
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:09am
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by Finesseful Finesseful wrote:

What good is having read the bible or your religious text of choice if you don't know how to walk in love & address people in a respectable manner? 


The bible is supposed to teach you HOW to walk that walk. 


Exactly. So either they didn't read it or just read it to appear to be a model christian.


Posted By: Random Thoughts
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

But seriously yeah if u want to learn about Christianity read the Bible yourself tho. Too many people rely on others to teach them.


And have everyone drop out of school while we're at it.


Posted By: babyk94
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:12am
I feel like I'm leaning towards agnostic for some reason idk


Posted By: freedom76
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Positive K Positive K wrote:

But seriously yeah if u want to learn about Christianity read the Bible yourself tho. Too many people rely on others to teach them.
LOL Man, please...that is why there are so many different sects of religions now. People reading the Bible and MIS-interpreting or interpreting it themselves. Boy if they read it themselves without guidance, they may come over to this side.LOL


Posted By: Ladybird0724
Date Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 10:12am
Originally posted by ms_wonderland ms_wonderland wrote:


But I believe in God...I believe there's something bigger than we are I just don't know that Christianity has it right.


this. tbh, i have always felt the closest to God when I have been out in nature. I have had my best thoughts/discussions with him/her on top of a mountain than I ever have in a church.

Originally posted by maysay1 maysay1 wrote:



3. I realized that I just wanted to be an instrument of love and good and peace and kindness...and that directly contradicts certain things that are in the bible (or at least the christian interpretation of them).


exactly. I felt that if I remained with a church, I could not do that. Once I let go of what I "should" believe in, I felt this unbelievable freedom. I felt happy and content, and that is something that I wouldn't trade back just to be able to sit in a pew and be accepted by my family as a "believer"...I did what was right for me, and my soul is happy with it.

I don't classify myself as anything. I am just content.

I began to have issues with the church when I was sexually assaulted multiple times, for years, by members of the church. not even my own mother believed me. I felt isolated, hopeless...i was told to pray about it and that it would go away. it didn't. it wasn't until i left to go to college that I thought it would get better...when i shared my story with my new church, i was blamed...they actually laid hands on me to 'get the devil out'...i never went back. I tried other denominations but never felt right.

for years, i was angry and blamed God for what happened, blamed myself as well. it wasn't until i had some good therapy that i began to feel better and began to heal...and that healing had nothing to do with being inside of a church singing Amazing Grace. I found I can still believe in God, but not going to church doesn't mean I believe.



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