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JUSTICE SCALIA SHOT THE SECEDING MESS

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Topic: JUSTICE SCALIA SHOT THE SECEDING MESS
Posted By: sexibeach
Subject: JUSTICE SCALIA SHOT THE SECEDING MESS
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 6:58pm

supreme court justice said stfup and have a seat



THERE IS NO RIGHT TO SECEDE’: SEE THE ALLEGED LETTER WHERE JUSTICE SCALIA SHOOTS DOWN IDEA OF LEAVING THE UNION

This was a letter written to a play write that was considering this in a movie and wrote a letter to the Justice. And what did Justice Scalia say? Pretty much that not only could Maine not secede (ironically enough, Maine is one of the three states that has no secession petition on the White House website), but the question is so firmly settled that it could not even get a hearing before the Supreme Court, because the United States government would refuse to entertain it:

I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

I am sure that poetic license can overcome all that — but you do not need legal advice for that. Good luck with your screenplay.

Justice betta preach and tell them to have a damn seat and get the fck over it.. LOL But they are not they feel there is a gray area in the constitution therefore they can secede. But I don't think a few people have the right to have a State Secede even if they could do it. 



There is further law on this pertaining to the Civil War, in which the constitution implied you can't secede from the Union. 

Legality:

The  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_legality" rel="nofollow - principle of legality  is the legal ideal that requires all law to be clear, ascertainable and non-retrospective. It requires decision makers to resolve disputes by applying legal rules that have been declared beforehand, and not to alter the legal situation retrospectively by discretionary departures from established law.

No crime can be committed, nor punishment imposed without a pre-existing penal law,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nulla_poena_sine_lege" rel="nofollow - nulla poena sine lege . This principle is accepted as just and upheld by the penal codes of constitutional states, including virtually all modern democracies.

At the time of the Civil War it was not illegal as the ruling by Supreme Court came later in 1869(after the war) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession" rel="nofollow - Discussions and threats of secession  have often surfaced in American politics, but only in the case of the Confederate States of America was secession actually declared. The United States Supreme Court ruled in Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

The topic of secession was hotly debated by both sides prior to Civil War with some proudly pro Union, some pro secession and some even hovering over middle ground which would include the president in 1860.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Buchanan" rel="nofollow - President James Buchanan  (D, 1857-61) did not take action to stop the states from seceding; although he argued that secession was not legal, he also claimed that the federal government  http://www.philwrites.com/H_seccession.htm" rel="nofollow - did not have the constitutional right to stop the South  from doing so.

There where many who had  http://www.civilwar.org/hallowed-ground-magazine/winter-2010/voices-of-secession.html" rel="nofollow - an opinion  in regards to secession and many of whom interpreted the Constitution including President Lincoln. Lincoln's first publicly denounced the proposed secession in his first  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolns_first_inaugural_address" rel="nofollow - Inaugural Address

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolns_first_inaugural_address#Reaction" rel="nofollow - However , the speech also did not impress other states who were considering secession from the Union. Indeed, after Fort Sumter was attacked and Lincoln declared a formal State of Insurrection, four more states—Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas—seceded from the Union and joined the Confederacy.

After the Confederate states began to leave the Union, Lincoln had an even greater need to prove secession was Unconstitutional and strong incentive to make his  http://www.lewrockwell.com/ostrowski/ostrowski31.html" rel="nofollow - views against secession known  to the American people in order to secure their support for the onerous war which was made necessary by his opposition to secession.

So, as you can see, in 1861 no law existed in terms of prohibiting secession just multiple interpretations of the constitution none of which were interpretations from the Supreme Court in the sense that a ruling was made. This ruling would not be until legislature was reviewed (Texas v. White) in 1869.

The 1869 ruling would be law after 1869 (until a new ruling is made) but not representative of law prior to 1869. Without one of the following three things secession, prior to the Civil War, would not have been unanimously agreed upon as illegal and in regards to law could not have been illegal (in 1861).

  1. A law previously implemented to prohibit secession
  2. A previous Supreme Court ruling prohibiting secession
  3. "Clear text" within the Constitution (no grey area)



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/there-is-no-right-to-secede-see-the-letter-where-justice-scalia-shoots-down-idea-of-leaving-the-union/scalia-turkewitz-letter-763174/" rel="nofollow -



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Replies:
Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:30pm
Boom.


Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:36pm
Why won't they just revolt

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:39pm
Revolt against the us military and us govt?  Surely you jest.


Posted By: sexibeach
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by rickysrose rickysrose wrote:

Boom.

there it is! They need to go watch Lincoln and get over it, or read a History book..what's scary is its like the Civil War all over again.. but they don't have the right. 


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Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:42pm
Americans don't know anything about scarcity or inconvenience ... They don't have the stomachs or cahones for voluntary revolution


Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:44pm
I'm saying they have a right to revolt.

But since the state has the power of purse and violence it wouldn't be a good idea.

But yeah I believe ppl should have the right to revolt if they are not pleased with their government.
Ummm that's kinda how this whole thing started ya know

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: NARSAddict
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:45pm
LMAO

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Laws are not written to protect children and women. They are written to protect MEN. - TokyoRose (truncated unfortunately)


Posted By: nitabug
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:48pm
isn't it considered treason to try to secede in war time?

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God forgive me for my brash delivery
But I remember vividly what these streets did to me


Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:49pm
Are we at war?
I didn't know that there was a formal declaration by congress

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: sexibeach
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by nitabug nitabug wrote:

isn't it considered treason to try to secede in war time?

yes and on the federal level that's a death penalty case.. 


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Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:52pm
I don't believe we are formally at war.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed something

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: carolina cutie
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by rickysrose rickysrose wrote:

Americans don't know anything about scarcity or inconvenience ... They don't have the stomachs or cahones for voluntary revolution
Whatchu talking about girl? It's what this country is founded on. Why, I just read a passage about the inhuman suffering colonist suffered at the start of this country Ricky.

"1776-War for Independence against the tyrannical, evil British empire. Colonists suffer oppression that is unprecedented in human history. Minutemen singlehandedly defeat the evil British Empire in 1783."


Boom!Stern SmileLOL

OT: The history buff in me loves this type of satire lol
http://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-would-us-history-look-like-if-it_18.html" rel="nofollow - http://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-would-us-history-look-like-if-it_18.html

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<--Classy & Educated O.

"You're telling us your beefing with your bf's mother over $1 ice cream like it was blood diamonds." RickyR



Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:00pm
Those colonists didn't have snuggies 


Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:00pm
Lol


Posted By: Eden.
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

Why won't they just revolt
that would be funny.


Posted By: nitabug
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

I don't believe we are formally at war.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed something

I don't know. But if we are, I hope they try Trump for treason.


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God forgive me for my brash delivery
But I remember vividly what these streets did to me


Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:19pm
Trump is other worldly annoying

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: starflower7
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:20pm
How do we decide who has the right? If you really think about it none of us should be here now so there's no such thing as having or not having the right to do anything.

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"I give to the needy...and not the greedy!"

"Mm hm that's right!"


Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:23pm
The Iraq war and the war in Afghanistan... Congress had to approve military action, not sure if it's a declared war

How else do you justify such large scale, extended military action?


Posted By: rickysrose
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:25pm
I recall bush saying America is at war

Not sure if it was hyperbole


Posted By: Addicted19034
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 8:46pm
Lol at cant be sued without consent


Posted By: FarraFace
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:13pm
History is fun yo!

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/secession/20aug1866.html

^^^^That's a great read, but for y'all that can't maintain focus, here are the bullet points:

Originally posted by Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 wrote:

And did further declare in the same proclamation that it is the manifest determination of the American people that no State, of its own will, has a right or power to go out of or separate itself from, or be separated from the American Union; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;

.......

And whereas, subsequently to the said second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, the insurrection in the State of Texas has been completely and everywhere suppressed and ended, and the authority of the United States has been successfully and completely established in the said State of Texas, and now remains therein unresisted and undisputed, and such of the proper United States officers as have been duly commissioned within the limits of the said State, are now in undisturbed exercise of their official functions;

……

Now, therefore, I, Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare that the insurrection which heretofore existed in the State of Texas is at an end, and is to be henceforth so regarded in that State, as in the other States before named, in which the said insurrection was proclaimed to be at an end, by the aforesaid proclamation of the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six.

And I do further proclaim that the said insurrection is at an end, and that peace, order, tranquillity and civil authority now exist in and throughout the whole of the United States of America.


Been there, done that, transcribed the resulting historical documents and posted them online.

Imjussayin.....

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Posted By: JamCaygirl
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

I don't believe we are formally at war.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed something


wtf are you guys doing in Iraq and Afghanistan then?


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Out of many, one people.....
Happy 50th JAMAICA!


Posted By: jonesable
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by JamCaygirl JamCaygirl wrote:


Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

I don't believe we are formally at war.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed something


wtf are you guys doing in Iraq and Afghanistan then?


I was told the actual name for what they are called but Congress didn't declare war and they are the only ones who can.
So it's called something else but I forget

But yeah it's basically war but not formally
Just semantics really

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Never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee
Donne

Havmercy Dez Bryant


Posted By: FarraFace
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 11:45pm
@JamCaygirl: We are engaged in an ongoing interntional military campaign against terrorist groups/hostile regimes and any countries that aid, harbor, support and them.

Bush called it the War on Terror. Obama calls it an Overseas Contingency Operation.

Least that's what wikipedia said.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror#_





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Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by nitabug nitabug wrote:


Originally posted by jonesable jonesable wrote:

I don't believe we are formally at war.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, I may have missed something

I don't know. But if we are, I hope they try Trump for treason.
it goes to show how serious they take trump,

over here he would have been formally cautioned

in other countries beheaded

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I just can't stand the negro british midget. He brings out the worst in me.....

...
I sometimes think AfroK is gay and either doesn't know it or won't admit to it..


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by FarraFace FarraFace wrote:

History is fun yo!

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/secession/20aug1866.html

^^^^That's a great read, but for y'all that can't maintain focus, here are the bullet points:

Originally posted by Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 wrote:

And did further declare in the same proclamation that it is the manifest determination of the American people that no State, of its own will, has a right or power to go out of or separate itself from, or be separated from the American Union; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;

.......

And whereas, subsequently to the said second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, the insurrection in the State of Texas has been completely and everywhere suppressed and ended, and the authority of the United States has been successfully and completely established in the said State of Texas, and now remains therein unresisted and undisputed, and such of the proper United States officers as have been duly commissioned within the limits of the said State, are now in undisturbed exercise of their official functions;

……

Now, therefore, I, Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare that the insurrection which heretofore existed in the State of Texas is at an end, and is to be henceforth so regarded in that State, as in the other States before named, in which the said insurrection was proclaimed to be at an end, by the aforesaid proclamation of the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six.

And I do further proclaim that the said insurrection is at an end, and that peace, order, tranquillity and civil authority now exist in and throughout the whole of the United States of America.


Been there, done that, transcribed the resulting historical documents and posted them online.

Imjussayin.....


white people dont know their own history


crakkas

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I just can't stand the negro british midget. He brings out the worst in me.....

...
I sometimes think AfroK is gay and either doesn't know it or won't admit to it..


Posted By: sexibeach
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 3:54am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Originally posted by FarraFace FarraFace wrote:

History is fun yo!

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/secession/20aug1866.html

^^^^That's a great read, but for y'all that can't maintain focus, here are the bullet points:

Originally posted by Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, on August 20th, 1866 wrote:

And did further declare in the same proclamation that it is the manifest determination of the American people that no State, of its own will, has a right or power to go out of or separate itself from, or be separated from the American Union; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;

.......

And whereas, subsequently to the said second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, the insurrection in the State of Texas has been completely and everywhere suppressed and ended, and the authority of the United States has been successfully and completely established in the said State of Texas, and now remains therein unresisted and undisputed, and such of the proper United States officers as have been duly commissioned within the limits of the said State, are now in undisturbed exercise of their official functions;

……

Now, therefore, I, Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare that the insurrection which heretofore existed in the State of Texas is at an end, and is to be henceforth so regarded in that State, as in the other States before named, in which the said insurrection was proclaimed to be at an end, by the aforesaid proclamation of the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six.

And I do further proclaim that the said insurrection is at an end, and that peace, order, tranquillity and civil authority now exist in and throughout the whole of the United States of America.


Been there, done that, transcribed the resulting historical documents and posted them online.

Imjussayin.....


white people dont know their own history


crakkas

You know this is a special kind of crakka, they don't believe in facts or the truth,  they only know about the Boston Tea Party, but they do believe in LIES. They do believe in making up their own facts and truth, its called living in a bubble. 


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Posted By: Organic
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:06am
This is just foolish and takes up unnecessary bandwidth and thought in the American psyche. They should just SIT DOWN and learn to deal with change. You can't have every stinking thing your way. Spoiled brats.

Perhaps the best, most striking display of white privilege yet. That is, after O'Reilly's admission that what was once the 'white establishment' is no more.

Lawd help me to deal with these white folk today Pinch. My patience is thin!


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Cut from full hip to full waist
Maxi Glide with coconut oil
Pin curls
VOILA!


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:12am
i dont get why they are so mad this time around instead of last time you know

i.just.dont.get.it / vivca fox

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I just can't stand the negro british midget. He brings out the worst in me.....

...
I sometimes think AfroK is gay and either doesn't know it or won't admit to it..


Posted By: Organic
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:17am
^ Because the first time was obviously a fluke - a glitch in the matrix. An allowance of the lil 'slow' kid to play on your team just to be 'nice'. Whoindahell wants the slow kid on their side every time?

The second time around solidified an actual shift in American perspectives and highlights the need for real friggin change. There is a shift in dynamics in this country and it is gaining headway. We's tired of seeing white folks and dey is mad as hell about it!


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Cut from full hip to full waist
Maxi Glide with coconut oil
Pin curls
VOILA!


Posted By: Organic
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:25am
Actually, that was a bit trite...

Even with an unsteady economy, Americans, with this election, showed that there is an even greater concern for social responsibility and the need for 'things', as Mr. O'Reilly so eloquently stated.

This country is tired. A decade of war, failing school systems, moderate unemployment - the country is tired. I hope this trends like a Twitter feed.


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Cut from full hip to full waist
Maxi Glide with coconut oil
Pin curls
VOILA!


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:37am
lol

i hope this trend catches on elsewhere

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I just can't stand the negro british midget. He brings out the worst in me.....

...
I sometimes think AfroK is gay and either doesn't know it or won't admit to it..


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 4:38am
I made the mistake of getting into a discussion with someone who said the ability to secede was actually in the constitution...err...no it's not and the constitution has never been interpreted to mean states could come and go as they please.  Then they said that state's rights overrode federal law.  Err...no they don't. They seem to think Texas has special privileges and can join and secede whenever they please.  They haven't gone in 180 years, they won't now.  The best thing you can hope for is have the state bring it up to congress and the best response you could hope to get is a laugh and a note letting the state know the congress will be using their petition as toilet paper.  This person swore up and down that Texas chooses to be a part of the US and that they could be independent if they wanted to.  Didn't work out for them before...won't work out for them today.  Of course, then the guy couldn't think of anything else to say, so he started going in on my supposed public education.  OK.  lol




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When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: Faithfully2002
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 5:38am
Oh wow

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Posted By: Yardgirl
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 8:13am
Originally posted by rickysrose rickysrose wrote:

Americans don't know anything about scarcity or inconvenience ... They don't have the stomachs or cahones for voluntary revolution

Agree. I've seen how people behave when there's a problem with NJ Transit or MTA. 

SMDH.


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Posted By: BrownQtee
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 9:22am
Originally posted by Organic Organic wrote:

This is just foolish and takes up unnecessary bandwidth and thought in the American psyche. They should just SIT DOWN and learn to deal with change. You can't have every stinking thing your way. Spoiled brats.

Perhaps the best, most striking display of white privilege yet. That is, after O'Reilly's admission that what was once the 'white establishment' is no more.

Lawd help me to deal with these white folk today Pinch. My patience is thin!
 
 
I had to pray extra hard yesterday. This racially charged climate is testing my gangsta.


Posted By: Addicted19034
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 5:50pm
Every state now has a petition.

It saddens me to think at people are going put of their way to show hatred for Obama. And it must be stemming from the color of his skin, because other presidents have been worse.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/secession-petitions-now-filed-50-states-183500440.html


Posted By: AshBash89
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 5:58pm
White people are scared poopless and they should be after all of the atrocities they've committed.


Posted By: nycdiva357
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 6:08pm
the USA is like a diddy contract..
once you sign in...you're bad boy for life. you aint going NOWhere.

shrugs.


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He follows what I'm saying.. I aint gotta twitter shyt.



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