Print Page | Close Window

She (CSUNGRL09) was really offended! LOL

Printed From: Black Hair Media Forum
Category: My Spirituality
Forum Name: Alternative Religions
Forum Description: Discussions on Alternative Religions
URL: http://Forum.BlackHairMedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=328282
Printed Date: Apr 06 2020 at 12:05am


Topic: She (CSUNGRL09) was really offended! LOL
Posted By: NewFreedom11
Subject: She (CSUNGRL09) was really offended! LOL
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 4:24am
LOL

She went out of her way to post a response to my comment in another section so the rest of her cronies could stroke LOL her virtual penis. I love it!

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/dear-nonbeliever_topic327962_page1.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/dear-nonbeliever_topic327962_page1.html

Oh, and next time, feel free to address me...directly. You could have posted that in the Alternative section, but you know you have no spine to do it. Don't be so chicken sh*t next time. What do you think, I'll bite you? It's okay. Jesus will protect you! Wink

@csungrl09 If you really want the attention...here you go! I changed the title just for you. Wink



Replies:
Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 5:10am
Well, I was kind of irked that your comment was taken out of context.  I was also irked that she did not address that fact that another Christian came into the thread specifically to start some ish.  And of course, it turned into "all the atheists (yes, all 10 of us)--there are a great many you know--are beating up on the few Christians on the board (which is about 30-40 regulars)." 

SMDH

I am offended that they came into the Alternative section to try and persuade a non-believer to believe in god again.  If the OP wanted that, she would have gone to the My Spirituality section.  How many times have we constantly said that we welcome discussion, but not attempts at conversion.

Where are the mods/admin to put a sticky up in this section about this? 


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 5:37am
I didn't even try to respond. It would've taken way too much time. I couldn't even read the whole thing. Too much Jesus-laced kool-aid for me. Can't do it. Couldn't keep a straight face, and my responses wouldn't be very nice if I did. Even if I said things as nicely as I could, they'd still take it personally with their touchy asses who can dish it but not take it. Gullible sky-is-falling-still-believing-in-Santa-Claus-ass people. LOL


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

LOL

She went out of her way to post a response to my comment in another section so the rest of her cronies could stroke LOL her virtual penis. I love it!

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/dear-nonbeliever_topic327962_page1.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/dear-nonbeliever_topic327962_page1.html

Oh, and next time, feel free to address me...directly. You could have posted that in the Alternative section, but you know you have no spine to do it. Don't be so chicken sh*t next time. What do you think, I'll bite you? It's okay. Jesus will protect you! Wink

you're comment was totally disrespectful & it spun other things into my mind. so please, save it. i knew you would see the post && i felt like others could see the crap you wrote as well. &&cronies? i don't have any "followers" on BMH. i am my own person && so are the other ladies on the board. 

&&instead of address me directly, you do the same? i guess you're no better than me. 




-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Well, I was kind of irked that your comment was taken out of context.  I was also irked that she did not address that fact that another Christian came into the thread specifically to start some ish.  And of course, it turned into "all the atheists (yes, all 10 of us)--there are a great many you know--are beating up on the few Christians on the board (which is about 30-40 regulars)." 

SMDH

I am offended that they came into the Alternative section to try and persuade a non-believer to believe in god again.  If the OP wanted that, she would have gone to the My Spirituality section.  How many times have we constantly said that we welcome discussion, but not attempts at conversion.

Where are the mods/admin to put a sticky up in this section about this? 

tokyo,
i respect you as a fellow BMH poster. you are VERY knowledgeable but for you to even encourage freedom when she posts stuff about how anyone should "kill themselves" throws me off. i wouldn't expect that from you. anyway, i did not try and convert the OP...i just found that what she was saying is that she had a problem with the ppl in her fam n church & she even admits later in the thread that she was put off of religion partly b/c of ppl. i think that's sad cause no one should make you feel that bad & in case that was one of the reasons she left christianity i wanted to assure her that she could still practice in her own way/time


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 4:21pm
LOL

Another delusional Christian who has convinced themselves that they're so pious and say nothing disrespectful to anyone. Like I said, you took it somewhere else and made it a general statement. I smell p*ssy, and you're f*cked. Go cry in a corner and pray about it. LOL

Oh, and I did address you directly, I linked your thread. It's called a citation. You might learn it in one of your intro English courses soon, don't worry. But I can change the title of the tread if you want and put your useless name in it, so you feel special and important. Big smile


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

LOL

Another delusional Christian who has convinced themselves that they're so pious and say nothing disrespectful to anyone. Like I said, you took it somewhere else and made it a general statement. I smell p*ssy, and you're f*cked. Go cry in a corner and pray about it. LOL

Oh, and I did address you directly, I linked your thread. It's called a citation. You might learn it in one of your intro English courses soon, don't worry. But I can change the title of the tread if you want and put your useless name in it, so you feel special and important. Big smile

you are definitely one sad individual.
so much intelligence gone to waste with poor choice of words, laced with profanity.
people like you are pathetic...
(& i don't mean atheist, this is strictly about you n your blatant lack of respect n tact.)


&&p.s. directly, would have been a PM directly to my inboxx. 

anyway, i've washed my hands of you. have a nice life.



-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 7:52pm
Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 8:52pm
Back for more, I see. I thought you washed your Jesus blood clot covered hands of me! Confused

Well, anyway, I'm fulfilled in living a life loving others and doing good without a ghost man in the sky telling me to and threatening me with eternal damnation. I have more power and happiness depending on myself instead of letting a ghost man whisper my own thoughts into my head. There is no hell, there is no god, and you people are waiting for the sky to fall. I'm not worried about it or your pathetic wishful-thinking life with no proof of anything. All the things I believe are real and can be proven. YOU people live in constant fear of your own god and call it love. You need to look up Pascale's Wager and then get back to me, because that's all that you just did was utilize a piece of his philosophy. But of course, you wouldn't know that.

Deuces! Go give your Christmas list to Jesus, I mean Santa so he can get you some gifts to make you feel better. You'll get over it. LOL


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled.  Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.





-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 06 2011 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  [1st]Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  [2nd]There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled. [3rd] Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.




tokyo,

thank you for continuing to be respectful through all this. i really appreciate your respect and honesty. despite us having different beliefs when it comes to matters of the supernatural, i still feel as if you & i can talk about things (which i don't feel is possible with other members...) so i thank you. 

but to address the bolded statements

1st: I have thought about this before. i think all christians & non-christians have thought about this at one time or another. it does seem cruel that God would punish those who have done wrong in their lives, but how far fetched is that really? parents punish children everyday. God, being the father, has the right to punish a disobedient child...especially when he gives you tool to handle the situations you face in life (the bible) & the free will to make the decision up until the time you die, to follow him, but one choses otherwise. I do not believe that God will completely condemn even the worse of sinners, unless they have totally rejected him. I, for one, do not believe that God will punish someone who is a habitual liar, or someone who is gay, or someone who has a child out of wedlock, ect...i think that the bible makes it clear that the ultimate sin and the one that people will really have to own up to is their lack of faith in him. (i think that PEOPLE have a way of misinterpreting the bible in order to scare or isolate others. that's wrong & it makes everyone who believes look bad.) In addition, sin was the consequence for adam & eve's choice to partake of the apple in the garden of eden. there choice caused the issues that are happening in the world. ultimately it is the devil's world we are in...now we have the choice to live above the influence and come back into God's graces. only the strong will survive. Part of me feels like God did this to weed out the people who are not worthy of having everlasting life. Just like an exclusive club, there has to be a criteria...if everyone was allowed to join the club, it'd be called earth.

2nd: Personally, I have asked the lord in prayer for answers on numerous occasions. & i tell you this (you can believe it or not), he has answered. i know you can't understand this unless its happened to you, but honestly I have seen too many things not to believe in his power. when i am down n out, i pick up my bible or devotional, flip to a random page & right there in front of me is a passage that talks about the very thing I am going through. every time I have been within inches of hitting a brick wall, a door gets installed in that wall &i just walk right on through. that's not a coincidence if it happens more than twice. However, God does not help those who have not first helped themselves...so it may not be the case with everyone. God reveals himself in so many ways, all of those "coincidences" are not just happenings...they are his ways of saying "im still here". that's just my opinion. has he revealed himself physically? no, not since jesus walked the earth. he is a spirit, not a human being. 

3rd: this is another misconception about alot of christians. maybe you are right about some, but you're not right about me. I spend each day living for today. I seek fulfillment everyday, just like everyone else...but i know that that's not the only thing that counts. after I am fulfilled here on earth, then i may have the opportunity to be fulfilled in the afterlife...in a way better atmosphere than that of earth. Thinking ahead doesn't mean you're ignoring whats in front of you. i am in college now, enjoying my college experience but I came to college in order to find a better job in the future. same kind of concept.

that's the thing about faith, its 100% personal (&it's hard to prove b/c not everything is known). its not the same for everyone. &&you have to have faith to see what i see. our experiences are going to be different, not more or less meaningful...just different. 

& as for the video...what if he's wrong? he never answered the question. 



-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: katakana89
Date Posted: Dec 06 2011 at 10:52pm
Wow @ the rudeness laced in these posts.

I respect you, Tokyo.



-------------


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 06 2011 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  [1st]Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  [2nd]There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled. [3rd] Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.




tokyo,

thank you for continuing to be respectful through all this. i really appreciate your respect and honesty. despite us having different beliefs when it comes to matters of the supernatural, i still feel as if you & i can talk about things (which i don't feel is possible with other members...) so i thank you. 

but to address the bolded statements

1st: I have thought about this before. i think all christians & non-christians have thought about this at one time or another. it does seem cruel that God would punish those who have done wrong in their lives, but how far fetched is that really? parents punish children everyday. God, being the father, has the right to punish a disobedient child...especially when he gives you tool to handle the situations you face in life (the bible) & the free will to make the decision up until the time you die, to follow him, but one choses otherwise. I do not believe that God will completely condemn even the worse of sinners, unless they have totally rejected him. I, for one, do not believe that God will punish someone who is a habitual liar, or someone who is gay, or someone who has a child out of wedlock, ect...i think that the bible makes it clear that the ultimate sin and the one that people will really have to own up to is their lack of faith in him. (i think that PEOPLE have a way of misinterpreting the bible in order to scare or isolate others. that's wrong & it makes everyone who believes look bad.) In addition, sin was the consequence for adam & eve's choice to partake of the apple in the garden of eden. there choice caused the issues that are happening in the world. ultimately it is the devil's world we are in...now we have the choice to live above the influence and come back into God's graces. only the strong will survive. Part of me feels like God did this to weed out the people who are not worthy of having everlasting life. Just like an exclusive club, there has to be a criteria...if everyone was allowed to join the club, it'd be called earth.

2nd: Personally, I have asked the lord in prayer for answers on numerous occasions. & i tell you this (you can believe it or not), he has answered. i know you can't understand this unless its happened to you, but honestly I have seen too many things not to believe in his power. when i am down n out, i pick up my bible or devotional, flip to a random page & right there in front of me is a passage that talks about the very thing I am going through. every time I have been within inches of hitting a brick wall, a door gets installed in that wall &i just walk right on through. that's not a coincidence if it happens more than twice. However, God does not help those who have not first helped themselves...so it may not be the case with everyone. God reveals himself in so many ways, all of those "coincidences" are not just happenings...they are his ways of saying "im still here". that's just my opinion. has he revealed himself physically? no, not since jesus walked the earth. he is a spirit, not a human being. 

3rd: this is another misconception about alot of christians. maybe you are right about some, but you're not right about me. I spend each day living for today. I seek fulfillment everyday, just like everyone else...but i know that that's not the only thing that counts. after I am fulfilled here on earth, then i may have the opportunity to be fulfilled in the afterlife...in a way better atmosphere than that of earth. Thinking ahead doesn't mean you're ignoring whats in front of you. i am in college now, enjoying my college experience but I came to college in order to find a better job in the future. same kind of concept.

that's the thing about faith, its 100% personal (&it's hard to prove b/c not everything is known). its not the same for everyone. &&you have to have faith to see what i see. our experiences are going to be different, not more or less meaningful...just different. 

& as for the video...what if he's wrong? he never answered the question. 



Actually, he did answer the question.  It's just that you weren't satisfied with the answer.  He was also quite cleverly turning her argument against her to prove a point: that it is not known either way, and therefore one cannot be so arrogant as to believe they are the ones that are right.  Dawkins admits that he is 99% Atheist, but he is open to the possibility of a god the same way he is open to the possibility of a unicorn existing...and you will find that many others such as Sam Harris and Stephen Hawking present their views in much the same way.

Much of what you have presented is not really evidence, but anecdotes about your experience.  It doesn't hold a lot of weight in the scientific world, not because it's not respected, but it can't be measured or reproduced.  Scientists want to know how things work.  People who believe just accept it at face value.  For some of us, that is not acceptable because it leads to irrational thinking.  We once believed the sun revolved around the earth, that it was acceptable to own slaves and stone women to death for adultery.  Secularists and people who went against the church were responsible for changing that. 

As for "Adam" and "Eve," again, this is a story that can't really be validated and for many historians, it holds no weight what so ever.  Biblical accounts are not reliable at all.  But the way in which religious people escape it is proving the bible is valid--by using the bible.  The problem is that the bible is so contradictory and it has inaccurately misrepresented history on so many occasions that it can't be considered anything more than a fictitious version of events.  The bible has TWO completely separate accounts of the resurrection.  The most important story for modern day Christians--and it can't even get that straight?  It says that Jews were slaves of Egyptians, forced to build the pyramids--this is completely false and very much contradictory to ancient Egyptian culture and society.  The Jews were no where near the Egyptian pyramid builders (who were VERY WELL treated).


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 06 2011 at 11:51pm
LOL Tokyo, you have way more patience for these people than I do. Thank you for caring enough to bestow some intelligence on them. It honestly goes in one ear and out the other for most of them. I just choose not to humor them. Dialogue, even after being shown concrete evidence, is met with "well, we can just agree to disagree. I believe god is real. I'll pray for you." and other subjective reasoning, as if that in itself isn't offensive on numerous fronts. I'm tired of taking the high road with these people and they get to sling soft mud. It feels good to throw back all the mud that has accumulated. But kudos to you, lady.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 12:04am
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  [1st]Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  [2nd]There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled. [3rd] Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.




tokyo,

thank you for continuing to be respectful through all this. i really appreciate your respect and honesty. despite us having different beliefs when it comes to matters of the supernatural, i still feel as if you & i can talk about things (which i don't feel is possible with other members...) so i thank you. 

but to address the bolded statements

1st: I have thought about this before. i think all christians & non-christians have thought about this at one time or another. it does seem cruel that God would punish those who have done wrong in their lives, but how far fetched is that really? parents punish children everyday. God, being the father, has the right to punish a disobedient child...especially when he gives you tool to handle the situations you face in life (the bible) & the free will to make the decision up until the time you die, to follow him, but one choses otherwise. I do not believe that God will completely condemn even the worse of sinners, unless they have totally rejected him. I, for one, do not believe that God will punish someone who is a habitual liar, or someone who is gay, or someone who has a child out of wedlock, ect...i think that the bible makes it clear that the ultimate sin and the one that people will really have to own up to is their lack of faith in him. (i think that PEOPLE have a way of misinterpreting the bible in order to scare or isolate others. that's wrong & it makes everyone who believes look bad.) In addition, sin was the consequence for adam & eve's choice to partake of the apple in the garden of eden. there choice caused the issues that are happening in the world. ultimately it is the devil's world we are in...now we have the choice to live above the influence and come back into God's graces. only the strong will survive. Part of me feels like God did this to weed out the people who are not worthy of having everlasting life. Just like an exclusive club, there has to be a criteria...if everyone was allowed to join the club, it'd be called earth.

2nd: Personally, I have asked the lord in prayer for answers on numerous occasions. & i tell you this (you can believe it or not), he has answered. i know you can't understand this unless its happened to you, but honestly I have seen too many things not to believe in his power. when i am down n out, i pick up my bible or devotional, flip to a random page & right there in front of me is a passage that talks about the very thing I am going through. every time I have been within inches of hitting a brick wall, a door gets installed in that wall &i just walk right on through. that's not a coincidence if it happens more than twice. However, God does not help those who have not first helped themselves...so it may not be the case with everyone. God reveals himself in so many ways, all of those "coincidences" are not just happenings...they are his ways of saying "im still here". that's just my opinion. has he revealed himself physically? no, not since jesus walked the earth. he is a spirit, not a human being. 

3rd: this is another misconception about alot of christians. maybe you are right about some, but you're not right about me. I spend each day living for today. I seek fulfillment everyday, just like everyone else...but i know that that's not the only thing that counts. after I am fulfilled here on earth, then i may have the opportunity to be fulfilled in the afterlife...in a way better atmosphere than that of earth. Thinking ahead doesn't mean you're ignoring whats in front of you. i am in college now, enjoying my college experience but I came to college in order to find a better job in the future. same kind of concept.

that's the thing about faith, its 100% personal (&it's hard to prove b/c not everything is known). its not the same for everyone. &&you have to have faith to see what i see. our experiences are going to be different, not more or less meaningful...just different. 

& as for the video...what if he's wrong? he never answered the question. 



Actually, he did answer the question.  It's just that you weren't satisfied with the answer.  He was also quite cleverly turning her argument against her to prove a point: that it is not known either way, and therefore one cannot be so arrogant as to believe they are the ones that are right.  Dawkins admits that he is 99% Atheist, but he is open to the possibility of a god the same way he is open to the possibility of a unicorn existing...and you will find that many others such as Sam Harris and Stephen Hawking present their views in much the same way.

Much of what you have presented is not really evidence, but anecdotes about your experience.  It doesn't hold a lot of weight in the scientific world, not because it's not respected, but it can't be measured or reproduced.  Scientists want to know how things work.  People who believe just accept it at face value.  For some of us, that is not acceptable because it leads to irrational thinking.  We once believed the sun revolved around the earth, that it was acceptable to own slaves and stone women to death for adultery.  Secularists and people who went against the church were responsible for changing that. 

As for "Adam" and "Eve," again, this is a story that can't really be validated and for many historians, it holds no weight what so ever.  Biblical accounts are not reliable at all.  But the way in which religious people escape it is proving the bible is valid--by using the bible.  The problem is that the bible is so contradictory and it has inaccurately misrepresented history on so many occasions that it can't be considered anything more than a fictitious version of events.  The bible has TWO completely separate accounts of the resurrection.  The most important story for modern day Christians--and it can't even get that straight?  It says that Jews were slaves of Egyptians, forced to build the pyramids--this is completely false and very much contradictory to ancient Egyptian culture and society.  The Jews were no where near the Egyptian pyramid builders (who were VERY WELL treated).

okay, maybe i was looking for another answer about what he would do if he was wrong. not whether or not he thought he was wrong, cause that is obvious. he is arrogant enough to believe he is right though, so I don't understand the point he was proving. I think if he worded it differently it would have had more of an impact on me. 

& much of what i've presented are anecdotes b/c thats what having faith is... ("confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a belief that is not based on proof.") its a personal story or journey in belief. it can't really be explained unless you know exactly how it felt to see, be or hear what i have seen, where i have been or what i have heard. i believe i said that in the previous post. i don't expect you to understand it, just want you to know that there are people out there who have experienced things that you can never understand unless you have been there...doesn't mean its not true cause you've never experienced it. 

i have a love for science & understand that some people need to be able to touch, see, taste, hear and feel things to know that they are there, but for all you know, the things that are in the science books you are reading (not all of course) could be falsified the same way you say the bible is a false history. I am sure you have not reproduced or measured everything you have read about in the field of science...but you believe it b/c someone said that they have evidence. science is also not always correct, but constantly edited so nothing is really set in stone there either. i don't have anything against science at all. I have many family members who are scientists for NIH but remain true to their faith. the two don't always have to at ends with each other.

recently, scientists have reason to believe that man kind as we know it today can be traced back to two individuals in africa. one male, scientific adam, and one female, mitochondrial eve. sounds kind of like the story of adam and eve to me... a story that very well might be proven to be true eventually. the bible has been translated so many times, that dates, names and words may have been misinterpreted (hence the contradictions and historical inaccuracies), but the point of the stories have remained. so what if science was to validate the story? then what? (this is a rhetorical question.)

at the end of the day, believer or not, some or all of what we each believe may be wrong. we can defend our sides all day but I know better than to hold my breath. 




-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: SpoiledSpicy
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 12:15am

EXCELLENT POST.


Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  [1st]Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  [2nd]There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled. [3rd] Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.




tokyo,

thank you for continuing to be respectful through all this. i really appreciate your respect and honesty. despite us having different beliefs when it comes to matters of the supernatural, i still feel as if you & i can talk about things (which i don't feel is possible with other members...) so i thank you. 

but to address the bolded statements

1st: I have thought about this before. i think all christians & non-christians have thought about this at one time or another. it does seem cruel that God would punish those who have done wrong in their lives, but how far fetched is that really? parents punish children everyday. God, being the father, has the right to punish a disobedient child...especially when he gives you tool to handle the situations you face in life (the bible) & the free will to make the decision up until the time you die, to follow him, but one choses otherwise. I do not believe that God will completely condemn even the worse of sinners, unless they have totally rejected him. I, for one, do not believe that God will punish someone who is a habitual liar, or someone who is gay, or someone who has a child out of wedlock, ect...i think that the bible makes it clear that the ultimate sin and the one that people will really have to own up to is their lack of faith in him. (i think that PEOPLE have a way of misinterpreting the bible in order to scare or isolate others. that's wrong & it makes everyone who believes look bad.) In addition, sin was the consequence for adam & eve's choice to partake of the apple in the garden of eden. there choice caused the issues that are happening in the world. ultimately it is the devil's world we are in...now we have the choice to live above the influence and come back into God's graces. only the strong will survive. Part of me feels like God did this to weed out the people who are not worthy of having everlasting life. Just like an exclusive club, there has to be a criteria...if everyone was allowed to join the club, it'd be called earth.

2nd: Personally, I have asked the lord in prayer for answers on numerous occasions. & i tell you this (you can believe it or not), he has answered. i know you can't understand this unless its happened to you, but honestly I have seen too many things not to believe in his power. when i am down n out, i pick up my bible or devotional, flip to a random page & right there in front of me is a passage that talks about the very thing I am going through. every time I have been within inches of hitting a brick wall, a door gets installed in that wall &i just walk right on through. that's not a coincidence if it happens more than twice. However, God does not help those who have not first helped themselves...so it may not be the case with everyone. God reveals himself in so many ways, all of those "coincidences" are not just happenings...they are his ways of saying "im still here". that's just my opinion. has he revealed himself physically? no, not since jesus walked the earth. he is a spirit, not a human being. 

3rd: this is another misconception about alot of christians. maybe you are right about some, but you're not right about me. I spend each day living for today. I seek fulfillment everyday, just like everyone else...but i know that that's not the only thing that counts. after I am fulfilled here on earth, then i may have the opportunity to be fulfilled in the afterlife...in a way better atmosphere than that of earth. Thinking ahead doesn't mean you're ignoring whats in front of you. i am in college now, enjoying my college experience but I came to college in order to find a better job in the future. same kind of concept.

that's the thing about faith, its 100% personal (&it's hard to prove b/c not everything is known). its not the same for everyone. &&you have to have faith to see what i see. our experiences are going to be different, not more or less meaningful...just different. 

& as for the video...what if he's wrong? he never answered the question. 



Actually, he did answer the question.  It's just that you weren't satisfied with the answer.  He was also quite cleverly turning her argument against her to prove a point: that it is not known either way, and therefore one cannot be so arrogant as to believe they are the ones that are right.  Dawkins admits that he is 99% Atheist, but he is open to the possibility of a god the same way he is open to the possibility of a unicorn existing...and you will find that many others such as Sam Harris and Stephen Hawking present their views in much the same way.

Much of what you have presented is not really evidence, but anecdotes about your experience.  It doesn't hold a lot of weight in the scientific world, not because it's not respected, but it can't be measured or reproduced.  Scientists want to know how things work.  People who believe just accept it at face value.  For some of us, that is not acceptable because it leads to irrational thinking.  We once believed the sun revolved around the earth, that it was acceptable to own slaves and stone women to death for adultery.  Secularists and people who went against the church were responsible for changing that. 

As for "Adam" and "Eve," again, this is a story that can't really be validated and for many historians, it holds no weight what so ever.  Biblical accounts are not reliable at all.  But the way in which religious people escape it is proving the bible is valid--by using the bible.  The problem is that the bible is so contradictory and it has inaccurately misrepresented history on so many occasions that it can't be considered anything more than a fictitious version of events.  The bible has TWO completely separate accounts of the resurrection.  The most important story for modern day Christians--and it can't even get that straight?  It says that Jews were slaves of Egyptians, forced to build the pyramids--this is completely false and very much contradictory to ancient Egyptian culture and society.  The Jews were no where near the Egyptian pyramid builders (who were VERY WELL treated).

okay, maybe i was looking for another answer about what he would do if he was wrong. not whether or not he thought he was wrong, cause that is obvious. he is arrogant enough to believe he is right though, so I don't understand the point he was proving. I think if he worded it differently it would have had more of an impact on me. 

& much of what i've presented are anecdotes b/c thats what having faith is... ("confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a belief that is not based on proof.") its a personal story or journey in belief. it can't really be explained unless you know exactly how it felt to see, be or hear what i have seen, where i have been or what i have heard. i believe i said that in the previous post. i don't expect you to understand it, just want you to know that there are people out there who have experienced things that you can never understand unless you have been there...doesn't mean its not true cause you've never experienced it. 

i have a love for science & understand that some people need to be able to touch, see, taste, hear and feel things to know that they are there, but for all you know, the things that are in the science books you are reading (not all of course) could be falsified the same way you say the bible is a false history. I am sure you have not reproduced or measured everything you have read about in the field of science...but you believe it b/c someone said that they have evidence. science is also not always correct, but constantly edited so nothing is really set in stone there either. i don't have anything against science at all. I have many family members who are scientists for NIH but remain true to their faith. the two don't always have to at ends with each other.

recently, scientists have reason to believe that man kind as we know it today can be traced back to two individuals in africa. one male, scientific adam, and one female, mitochondrial eve. sounds kind of like the story of adam and eve to me... a story that very well might be proven to be true eventually. the bible has been translated so many times, that dates, names and words may have been misinterpreted (hence the contradictions and historical inaccuracies), but the point of the stories have remained. so what if science was to validate the story? then what? (this is a rhetorical question.)

at the end of the day, believer or not, some or all of what we each believe may be wrong. we can defend our sides all day but I know better than to hold my breath. 




-------------
Jeremiah 29:11


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 12:20am
Not really.

I have to go to work now, but I'll whip out a 2 min lengthy response when I get back.


Originally posted by SpoiledSpicy SpoiledSpicy wrote:


EXCELLENT POST.


Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:

Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Well, you didn't PM me either, so boo hoo. You didn't address me at the source, you didn't use names, you didn't PM me, you took it to another section where you just knew  you would get other gullible co-signs. Typical Christian hypocrisy. And if we talk about a waste of intelligence, at least I can consider myself an intellectual and analytical person. You don't even take advantage of proper English grammar, neither do you use proper punctuation. And you're in undergrad typing that way?! LOL What the hell is "&&p.s." "respect n tact"?! LOL You don't spell properly here, which means it's not first nature for you to do so, so you probably don't spell things or use proper grammar anywhere else. At this point, it's painfully obvious! THAT is pathetic! And you're worthless. I'm done being tactful with you Christians. You poke he bull but can't take the horns. DEAL WITH IT!

Also, you don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm actually quite happy. Approve Happier now than I ever was as a Christian. Don't feel bad for me. I'm not the one that still believes in a ghost man in the sky coming back to save them and make them feel important. You will NEVER be fulfilled, because there is no god and it will never answer you. You people make things up in your head and call them "god's answers". lol Good one! And again, with the attitude and tone you used in the TTT section, you're not that innocent either. Washed your hands of me? LOL Are you saying I'm a dirty non-believer? Maybe I need to be washed in the blood of Jesus, huh? LOL Too hilarious! G.T.F.O.H.W.T.B.S!

let me address this last ignorant, disrespectful, tactless statement before i go...

if i am wrong about my beliefs, then i would have spent my entire life believing in someone who gave me the strength to go from day to day in this miserable world, has always answered my prayers in a timely manner & in my opinion,  has never steered me in the wrong direction. (now, that's fulfillment.)
no harm done. 

&& if you're wrong about your beliefs, then you've committed the ultimate sin n will have to pay for it when he revokes your opportunity for ever lasting life. umm, the way i see it you are the one who will never be fulfilled.

goooooooooodbye. Wink


Um...I don't think you've spent enough time down here to know that we don't really do the Pascal's Wager argument.  Doesn't really hold a lot of water. It has also been shot down a lot. 



Your answer about what if we are wrong about not being Christian is precisely why I stay away from Christianity.  [1st]Why in the world would I pray to a being that gets its jollys off by eternally torturing people for what they've done over a mere 80 years?  That seems vindictive, petty and childish.  It does not show me that this so-called god is advanced in any way, shape or form.  And why isn't this god torturing itself for allowing bad things to happen to good people?  To allow children to starve or to prevent people from providing for their families?  What if I don't WANT to live forever?  Not everyone does.

Oh, and may I add the ultimate in childishness this god plays?  It's called faith.  [2nd]There are people who believed and asked for a sign and even asked for god to reveal itself and nothing happened.  They waited and got nothing.  And the believers, not god, get to make excuses for it.  You didn't pray hard enough.  You weren't ready.  You have to go to church.  Etc.  There is always an excuse, but never the evidence a non-believer needs.  It's a never ending cycle.  I also have to get into the issue of god and its omnipotence.  Which no believer has ever been able to address.  I'll save it for another thread, though.

People who talk about what they are going to experience instead of taking the opportunity to experience NOW, IMHO are not fulfilled. [3rd] Why would you be, if you are constantly spending your life looking to the after life for fulfillment?  It is not rational.  Why not take off on a trip around the world for a year?  Start a cooking class.  Tell the people in your life that you love them and they are important?  Those are far better ways of seeking fulfillment.  Enjoy what's right in front of you, for goodness sakes.




tokyo,

thank you for continuing to be respectful through all this. i really appreciate your respect and honesty. despite us having different beliefs when it comes to matters of the supernatural, i still feel as if you & i can talk about things (which i don't feel is possible with other members...) so i thank you. 

but to address the bolded statements

1st: I have thought about this before. i think all christians & non-christians have thought about this at one time or another. it does seem cruel that God would punish those who have done wrong in their lives, but how far fetched is that really? parents punish children everyday. God, being the father, has the right to punish a disobedient child...especially when he gives you tool to handle the situations you face in life (the bible) & the free will to make the decision up until the time you die, to follow him, but one choses otherwise. I do not believe that God will completely condemn even the worse of sinners, unless they have totally rejected him. I, for one, do not believe that God will punish someone who is a habitual liar, or someone who is gay, or someone who has a child out of wedlock, ect...i think that the bible makes it clear that the ultimate sin and the one that people will really have to own up to is their lack of faith in him. (i think that PEOPLE have a way of misinterpreting the bible in order to scare or isolate others. that's wrong & it makes everyone who believes look bad.) In addition, sin was the consequence for adam & eve's choice to partake of the apple in the garden of eden. there choice caused the issues that are happening in the world. ultimately it is the devil's world we are in...now we have the choice to live above the influence and come back into God's graces. only the strong will survive. Part of me feels like God did this to weed out the people who are not worthy of having everlasting life. Just like an exclusive club, there has to be a criteria...if everyone was allowed to join the club, it'd be called earth.

2nd: Personally, I have asked the lord in prayer for answers on numerous occasions. & i tell you this (you can believe it or not), he has answered. i know you can't understand this unless its happened to you, but honestly I have seen too many things not to believe in his power. when i am down n out, i pick up my bible or devotional, flip to a random page & right there in front of me is a passage that talks about the very thing I am going through. every time I have been within inches of hitting a brick wall, a door gets installed in that wall &i just walk right on through. that's not a coincidence if it happens more than twice. However, God does not help those who have not first helped themselves...so it may not be the case with everyone. God reveals himself in so many ways, all of those "coincidences" are not just happenings...they are his ways of saying "im still here". that's just my opinion. has he revealed himself physically? no, not since jesus walked the earth. he is a spirit, not a human being. 

3rd: this is another misconception about alot of christians. maybe you are right about some, but you're not right about me. I spend each day living for today. I seek fulfillment everyday, just like everyone else...but i know that that's not the only thing that counts. after I am fulfilled here on earth, then i may have the opportunity to be fulfilled in the afterlife...in a way better atmosphere than that of earth. Thinking ahead doesn't mean you're ignoring whats in front of you. i am in college now, enjoying my college experience but I came to college in order to find a better job in the future. same kind of concept.

that's the thing about faith, its 100% personal (&it's hard to prove b/c not everything is known). its not the same for everyone. &&you have to have faith to see what i see. our experiences are going to be different, not more or less meaningful...just different. 

& as for the video...what if he's wrong? he never answered the question. 



Actually, he did answer the question.  It's just that you weren't satisfied with the answer.  He was also quite cleverly turning her argument against her to prove a point: that it is not known either way, and therefore one cannot be so arrogant as to believe they are the ones that are right.  Dawkins admits that he is 99% Atheist, but he is open to the possibility of a god the same way he is open to the possibility of a unicorn existing...and you will find that many others such as Sam Harris and Stephen Hawking present their views in much the same way.

Much of what you have presented is not really evidence, but anecdotes about your experience.  It doesn't hold a lot of weight in the scientific world, not because it's not respected, but it can't be measured or reproduced.  Scientists want to know how things work.  People who believe just accept it at face value.  For some of us, that is not acceptable because it leads to irrational thinking.  We once believed the sun revolved around the earth, that it was acceptable to own slaves and stone women to death for adultery.  Secularists and people who went against the church were responsible for changing that. 

As for "Adam" and "Eve," again, this is a story that can't really be validated and for many historians, it holds no weight what so ever.  Biblical accounts are not reliable at all.  But the way in which religious people escape it is proving the bible is valid--by using the bible.  The problem is that the bible is so contradictory and it has inaccurately misrepresented history on so many occasions that it can't be considered anything more than a fictitious version of events.  The bible has TWO completely separate accounts of the resurrection.  The most important story for modern day Christians--and it can't even get that straight?  It says that Jews were slaves of Egyptians, forced to build the pyramids--this is completely false and very much contradictory to ancient Egyptian culture and society.  The Jews were no where near the Egyptian pyramid builders (who were VERY WELL treated).

okay, maybe i was looking for another answer about what he would do if he was wrong. not whether or not he thought he was wrong, cause that is obvious. he is arrogant enough to believe he is right though, so I don't understand the point he was proving. I think if he worded it differently it would have had more of an impact on me. 

& much of what i've presented are anecdotes b/c thats what having faith is... ("confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a belief that is not based on proof.") its a personal story or journey in belief. it can't really be explained unless you know exactly how it felt to see, be or hear what i have seen, where i have been or what i have heard. i believe i said that in the previous post. i don't expect you to understand it, just want you to know that there are people out there who have experienced things that you can never understand unless you have been there...doesn't mean its not true cause you've never experienced it. 

i have a love for science & understand that some people need to be able to touch, see, taste, hear and feel things to know that they are there, but for all you know, the things that are in the science books you are reading (not all of course) could be falsified the same way you say the bible is a false history. I am sure you have not reproduced or measured everything you have read about in the field of science...but you believe it b/c someone said that they have evidence. science is also not always correct, but constantly edited so nothing is really set in stone there either. i don't have anything against science at all. I have many family members who are scientists for NIH but remain true to their faith. the two don't always have to at ends with each other.

recently, scientists have reason to believe that man kind as we know it today can be traced back to two individuals in africa. one male, scientific adam, and one female, mitochondrial eve. sounds kind of like the story of adam and eve to me... a story that very well might be proven to be true eventually. the bible has been translated so many times, that dates, names and words may have been misinterpreted (hence the contradictions and historical inaccuracies), but the point of the stories have remained. so what if science was to validate the story? then what? (this is a rhetorical question.)

at the end of the day, believer or not, some or all of what we each believe may be wrong. we can defend our sides all day but I know better than to hold my breath. 




-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 12:23am
Originally posted by SpoiledSpicy SpoiledSpicy wrote:


EXCELLENT POST.


you know what this means right? 
you have officially crossed over & have opened yourself up to be attacked too. 
be prepared LOL


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 12:52am
All she said was that she liked the dialogue. That's nothing to be "attacked" about. YOU on the other hand...


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 5:09am
Originally posted by csungrl09 csungrl09 wrote:


okay, maybe i was looking for another answer about what he would do if he was wrong. not whether or not he thought he was wrong, cause that is obvious. he is arrogant enough to believe he is right though, so I don't understand the point he was proving. I think if he worded it differently it would have had more of an impact on me.


What makes you say that he is arrogant?  Did you listen to what he was saying?  Have you even ventured onto other videos where he talks about what he believes?  Again, he says that he is 99% sure there is no god, but he doesn't dismiss the possibility completely.  IF he is presented with evidence, then he will re-evaluate what he believes to be true as far as god. 

If you can't understand the point he was making, then I am afraid it's because you don't WANT to understand.  Just remember: You are ONE god away from being atheist, too.  I seriously doubt you believe in Thor, non-abrahamic gods, ceiling cat or pink unicorns.

Quote & much of what i've presented are anecdotes b/c thats what having faith is... ("confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a belief that is not based on proof.") its a personal story or journey in belief. it can't really be explained unless you know exactly how it felt to see, be or hear what i have seen, where i have been or what i have heard. i believe i said that in the previous post. i don't expect you to understand it, just want you to know that there are people out there who have experienced things that you can never understand unless you have been there...doesn't mean its not true cause you've never experienced it.

This is not something that can be measured and it leaves for very open interpretation.  You can't really prove that what you have "experienced" isn't a figment of your imagination, either. 

Quote i have a love for science & understand that some people need to be able to touch, see, taste, hear and feel things to know that they are there, but for all you know, the things that are in the science books you are reading (not all of course) could be falsified the same way you say the bible is a false history.

So, are you saying that the theory of gravity is a figment of my imagination?  Hum...
There is science and there is junk science.  Most of the scientific community will not accept a theory unless it can be tested. 

When I look at the bible, I look at it from a scientific and historical perspective.  We know that the bible has been written by several different people AND it has been INFLUENCED by several other deity stories.  As I will repeat, here, the story of Jesus was written 65 years after his supposed death.  Historians can't even agree that there really even was such a person as "Jesus."  There are theories out there that "Jesus" was actually a symbol for several different people.  Others say that "Jesus" was simply made up all together. 

Quote I am sure you have not reproduced or measured everything you have read about in the field of science...but you believe it b/c someone said that they have evidence. science is also not always correct, but constantly edited so nothing is really set in stone there either.

And science is not so arrogant as to believe that one theory is the only theory for a particular topic.  Scientists even say "WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION." 

Why not just shut non-believers up and say, "Okay, here is the evidence."  But it is never produced.  It would make things so much easier.

You do realize that this sort of argument would never work in court, right?  When talking with a believer, god doesn't even have to show up in court!  People get to tell stories of hearsay and they don't have to produce any forensic evidence. 

Quote i don't have anything against science at all. I have many family members who are scientists for NIH but remain true to their faith. the two don't always have to at ends with each other.

I SERIOUSLY doubt your relatives believe in the literal talking snake.  Or that a birth can happen without sex.  If that were the case, I am sure that they wouldn't be working for NIH, and if they do believe in all of that, they shouldn't be working for NIH.

Quote recently, scientists have reason to believe that man kind as we know it today can be traced back to two individuals in africa. one male, scientific adam, and one female, mitochondrial eve. sounds kind of like the story of adam and eve to me... a story that very well might be proven to be true eventually. the bible has been translated so many times, that dates, names and words may have been misinterpreted (hence the contradictions and historical inaccuracies), but the point of the stories have remained. so what if science was to validate the story? then what? (this is a rhetorical question.)

Oh, here we go.  First and foremost, it doesn't sound anything like the biblical adam and eve and this is really what bothers me about some Christians.  The writers of the bible knew absolutely NOTHING about evolution.  They were talking about two (imaginary) homo sapiens they decided to call Adam and Eve.  The remains these scientists found don't show that these two had two children called "Cain" and "Able".  The bible can get away with being interpreted to the point of out right lies--something we could never get away with.  You can't simply say, "Well, THAT'S what the bible meant" every time we come across evidence that proves the bible WRONG. 

No one has ever found and determined for certain the first human beings on earth.  It is simply impossible to do so and if the scientists claimed that this adam and eve were for certain the "real" adam and eve, they would probably lose respect in the scientific community.  The oldest human remains; however, have been found in Africa.  If anything, those remains prove a stronger case for evolution than they do for biblical falsehoods.

Quote at the end of the day, believer or not, some or all of what we each believe may be wrong. we can defend our sides all day but I know better than to hold my breath.


True, but on my side, I just ask one question, "Show me the evidence."


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: doubleaqueen772
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 8:46am
Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that

-------------

Broke people out here goin' to college for fun?
In what alternate universe are you living?- Sang Froid


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 8:49am
Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that


Well, to be honest, it is no more of a bait thread than the one in TTT, entitled "to the non-believer..."
They both could have had a discussion over PM or discussed it further, here.  Neither party is completely innocent of blame.

Which leads me to ask...why does every thread dealing with religion have to be a "bait thread"?  Why not have a controversial discussion just for the heck of it? 


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that

thank you queen, i agree that some things that were said were disrespectful but i am only addressing those members who have something to say or constructively critique, not those who have something they've got to prove so bad that they are completely rude about it.


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

Originally posted by doubleaqueen772 doubleaqueen772 wrote:

Csungrl09 girl this a bait thread, a disrespectful bait thread at that


Well, to be honest, it is no more of a bait thread than the one in TTT, entitled "to the non-believer..."
They both could have had a discussion over PM or discussed it further, here.  Neither party is completely innocent of blame.

Which leads me to ask...why does every thread dealing with religion have to be a "bait thread"?  Why not have a controversial discussion just for the heck of it? 

i think she is referring to how badly this could end. most religious & political threads never get very far.


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:27pm
*Plays violin for people who are ass-hurt over it and don't see the hypocrisy*

Besides, why would I PM her so that her underhanded ass would:

A) Broadcast the most favorable parts to the rest of the forum and just not use names to garner support
B) Or Say that she didn't see the PM and just not respond at all

Then, we don't want her sensitive ass saying that I privately attacked her. Oh, no! Cry

Bait post? LOL

GTFO!


Posted By: Midna
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 2:55pm
DAMN! Maybe I'm just being biased, but NewFreedom verbally whooped ass with a smile on her face!

-------------


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:



What makes you say that he is arrogant?  Did you listen to what he was saying?  Have you even ventured onto other videos where he talks about what he believes?  Again, he says that he is 99% sure there is no god, but he doesn't dismiss the possibility completely.  IF he is presented with evidence, then he will re-evaluate what he believes to be true as far as god. 

If you can't understand the point he was making, then I am afraid it's because you don't WANT to understand.  Just remember: You are ONE god away from being atheist, too.  I seriously doubt you believe in Thor, non-abrahamic gods, ceiling cat or pink unicorns.


its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?

Quote
This is not something that can be measured and it leaves for very open interpretation.  You can't really prove that what you have "experienced" isn't a figment of your imagination, either.


i can't measure it, but since i am healthy, conscious and rational i think i can say that these experiences were not a figment of my imagination. 

Quote So, are you saying that the theory of gravity is a figment of my imagination?  Hum...
There is science and there is junk science.  Most of the scientific community will not accept a theory unless it can be tested. 

When I look at the bible, I look at it from a scientific and historical perspective.  We know that the bible has been written by several different people AND it has been INFLUENCED by several other deity stories.  As I will repeat, here, the story of Jesus was written 65 years after his supposed death.  Historians can't even agree that there really even was such a person as "Jesus."  There are theories out there that "Jesus" was actually a symbol for several different people.  Others say that "Jesus" was simply made up all together.


let's be real here. it is apparent that gravity exists. i did not say which scientific theories I was referring too so why choose gravity as a argument ? the bible touches on gravity. In Job 26:7 it says, "he spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." isn't it true that gravity is an invisible force between objects that have mass, that allows the celestial bodies of the heavens to "suspend" themselves in mid air ? like i said science and religion do not always have to be at odds with each other.

Quote And science is not so arrogant as to believe that one theory is the only theory for a particular topic.  Scientists even say "WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION."

Why not just shut non-believers up and say, "Okay, here is the evidence."  But it is never produced.  It would make things so much easier.

You do realize that this sort of argument would never work in court, right?  When talking with a believer, god doesn't even have to show up in court!  People get to tell stories of hearsay and they don't have to produce any forensic evidence.

thank God i'm not in court then! but for the reason bolded above, this is why non-believers can't convince me on the scientific rationale of why religion is false, b/c science isn't always right, and theories change all the time. scientist don't know all the answers. again, if scientists start proving the validity of biblical stories, then what?

Quote  I SERIOUSLY doubt your relatives believe in the literal talking snake.  Or that a birth can happen without sex.  If that were the case, I am sure that they wouldn't be working for NIH, and if they do believe in all of that, they shouldn't be working for NIH.


another great thing I love about the bible is that its lots of witty metaphors and most of the stories are figurative so that the reader can interpret the text for themselves. its kind of like poetry. its beautiful really. i am sure many believers believe in the jist of these stories. since the bible was written by man it is going to have some flaws, but b/c is was inspired by God, the message remains. again, science and religion don't always have to go head to head so if my relatives wanted to work for NIH and we capable of obtaining jobs there, they are obviously rational enough to make sense of it all. 

Quote  Oh, here we go.  First and foremost, it doesn't sound anything like the biblical adam and eve and this is really what bothers me about some Christians.  The writers of the bible knew absolutely NOTHING about evolution.  They were talking about two (imaginary) homo sapiens they decided to call Adam and Eve.  The remains these scientists found don't show that these two had two children called "Cain" and "Able".  The bible can get away with being interpreted to the point of out right lies--something we could never get away with.  You can't simply say, "Well, THAT'S what the bible meant" every time we come across evidence that proves the bible WRONG. 

No one has ever found and determined for certain the first human beings on earth.  It is simply impossible to do so and if the scientists claimed that this adam and eve were for certain the "real" adam and eve, they would probably lose respect in the scientific community.  The oldest human remains; however, have been found in Africa.  If anything, those remains prove a stronger case for evolution than they do for biblical falsehoods.

you knew this was coming. you said it yourself, " Scientists even say 'WE DON'T KNOW.  WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.'" so maybe with some more research they will figure out that two sons named cain and able existed. the discovery of two ancestors that all of humanity came from is hardly proving the bible wrong. 

Quote True, but on my side, I just ask one question, "Show me the evidence."

again, faith is believing in something without having proof. its PERSONAL. you said my anecdotes don't count so what could i possibly show you? &if you experienced what i have, you will probably chuck it up to mere coincidence or human will power so something like that. 


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: Athena88
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 5:47pm
Csungrl09, I really don't think you get it, basically the only thing that makes God, any God real, is the people's belief in that deity, there is no actual real evidence that any God truly exists. So a person believing in a purple unicorn, green aliens, or mermaids is no less unsound. You can't say, yeah, I believe in this spiritual being that I never saw before but YOU, believing in (insert fictional mythical creature here) is CRAZY. There is no evidence supporting either, so your belief in God is no more important than their belief that he doesn't exist or the little girl who believes in Santa or fairies.

Quote its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?


You, we, most of us, mainly believe in one God, if the scientific community were to one day disprove the theory that there is actually a God, where would you be? Would you convert to another religion or would you lose your faith in the higher power and stop believing altogether, which would, in turn, make you an atheist, I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this. You baffle me, and before you start, I believe in God, don't believe in the bible or organized religion,ultimately, I'm spiritual, believing in a higher power trying to live a good, decent life.

-------------
Darien and Serena are my dream couple.

Superficiality is a disease. Too bad it's contagious.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Athena88 Athena88 wrote:

Csungrl09, I really don't think you get it, basically the only thing that makes God, any God real, is the people's belief in that deity, there is no actual real evidence that any God truly exists. So a person believing in a purple unicorn, green aliens, or mermaids is no less unsound. You can't say, yeah, I believe in this spiritual being that I never saw before but YOU, believing in (insert fictional mythical creature here) is CRAZY. There is no evidence supporting either, so your belief in God is no more important than their belief that he doesn't exist or the little girl who believes in Santa or fairies.

Quote its not that i don't want to understand, its simply that i don't understand how talking about a flying spaghetti monster is the same as talking about God. what does being one god away from being atheist even mean? i don't plan on giving up faith in my one God so i won't ever be an atheist. if you mean, that there is a possibility that there is more than one god n I have rejected all of them, then yes i guess i am one God away but fortunately for me that one God will keep me out of atheism. what proof could he be presented with? the bible, the physical manifestation of the divinely inspired word of God holds no merit with the "scholarly" or "intellectual" crowd and neither do personal stories sooo.....?


You, we, most of us, mainly believe in one God, if the scientific community were to one day disprove the theory that there is actually a God, where would you be? Would you convert to another religion or would you lose your faith in the higher power and stop believing altogether, which would, in turn, make you an atheist, I don't get why it's so hard for you to grasp this. You baffle me, and before you start, I believe in God, don't believe in the bible or organized religion,ultimately, I'm spiritual, believing in a higher power trying to live a good, decent life.

thank you for explaining. i do understand now that someone took the time out to explain instead of saying that i don't understand because i don't want to.  why is it sooo hard to believe that i needed it to be explained better? &&now that i understand, i say this again....like i've said before. faith is personal so I don't expect anyone who hasn't experienced what i have to believe me. i am just saying that because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. &&no i wouldn't stop believing in god b/c science isn't 100% accurate & i have experienced things that could only be at the hand of God. 


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 8:57pm
I just wrote a whole long post, twice.

I will give you the short version:

Again, csungrl09, you have just proven that you don't WANT to understand what the atheist position is.  I have said several times that you are one god away from being atheist, which is EXACTLY what the previous poster just told you.

And I am not surprised.  Had she not said she believed in a god, you probably would try your best not to understand what she is saying, either.  Which I find utterly perplexing, by the way.

Again, science doesn't claim to be 100% accurate, but it doesn't completely dismiss the discussion the way religion does.  If we don't know, we research.  If religion doesn't know, it says to have faith.  I don't think science would have gotten as far as it did had it had the same attitude. 


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

I just wrote a whole long post, twice.

I will give you the short version:

Again, csungrl09, you have just proven that you don't WANT to understand what the atheist position is.  I have said several times that you are one god away from being atheist, which is EXACTLY what the previous poster just told you.

And I am not surprised.  Had she not said she believed in a god, you probably would try your best not to understand what she is saying, either.  Which I find utterly perplexing, by the way.

Again, science doesn't claim to be 100% accurate, but it doesn't completely dismiss the discussion the way religion does.  If we don't know, we research.  If religion doesn't know, it says to have faith.  I don't think science would have gotten as far as it did had it had the same attitude. 


Told you. Waste of time. Some people have minds that absorb information like a rubber absorbs water.


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

I just wrote a whole long post, twice.

I will give you the short version:

Again, csungrl09, you have just proven that you don't WANT to understand what the atheist position is.  I have said several times that you are one god away from being atheist, which is EXACTLY what the previous poster just told you. -->could it not be that i didn't understand how you put it? 

And I am not surprised.  Had she not said she believed in a god, you probably would try your best not to understand what she is saying, either.  Which I find utterly perplexing, by the way. -->even before I read that part of her post, I was ready to thank her for explaining all of that too me.

Again, science doesn't claim to be 100% accurate, but it doesn't completely dismiss the discussion the way religion does.  If we don't know, we research.  If religion doesn't know, it says to have faith.  I don't think science would have gotten as far as it did had it had the same attitude.  -->i agree with you, it wouldn't.

okay, thanks anyway. i got what i needed out of this discussion.
conclusion: oil & holy water don't mix.


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Dec 07 2011 at 11:00pm
Correction: She absorbs information like holy water absorbs oil. Yeah, that works!


Posted By: Bunnyahh
Date Posted: Dec 08 2011 at 9:50pm
man, cut the sh*t!  god doesn't exist & religion is a hoax to control the masses with fear.

-------------
Hi BHM!! Lovely day I'm having. How about you?


Posted By: webbgurl2000
Date Posted: Dec 09 2011 at 6:55am
Actually, there are many Christian Scientists that do not dismiss Science. John Ankeberg speaks quite alot on science and its importance in our world. I think everyone here makes good points. I think it would help if we could try to understand how and why each person may feel the way she does. I don't disrespect anyone because they are an atheist. They may have never felt a reason to trust God. I understand why some Love Jesus the way they do because they looked at things in a different way and chose to believe.
So, all in all. We need to be careful about sweeping generalizations about each other on both sides of the aisle and remember understanding is the first bridge to acceptance.


Posted By: TokyoRose
Date Posted: Dec 09 2011 at 8:25am
Originally posted by webbgurl2000 webbgurl2000 wrote:

Actually, there are many Christian Scientists that do not dismiss Science. John Ankeberg speaks quite alot on science and its importance in our world. I think everyone here makes good points. I think it would help if we could try to understand how and why each person may feel the way she does. I don't disrespect anyone because they are an atheist. They may have never felt a reason to trust God. I understand why some Love Jesus the way they do because they looked at things in a different way and chose to believe.
So, all in all. We need to be careful about sweeping generalizations about each other on both sides of the aisle and remember understanding is the first bridge to acceptance.


Disagree with some of this, actually.  Some atheists, like myself, can't really "accept" religious dogma if it does not benefit the greatest good and well being of human beings.  For example, I cannot accept a belief that it is okay for a woman to be subjugated and beaten because someone's religious book says this is the way things should be.

At the same time, many Christians (and people of other religions) simply refuse to hear our standpoint and make no apologies for it.  Read the My Spirituality section.  There has been more than one person openly admitting they are not interested in what anyone else of any other belief system has to say, as they feel it's an imaginary 'devil' who is at the root of those alternative view points.


-------------
When common sense fails, assume I am taking the piss and being sarcastic.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.


Posted By: Jewelsnyc
Date Posted: Dec 09 2011 at 9:49am

This was a wonderful read. And TR YOU ARE THE BOMB.COM....although I believe there is a god/higher power/something greater than myself... (tbh science has strengthened this belief for me), there are so many valid points made. I don't believe the bible should ever be taken as an actual factual book! Taking the stories literally, to me, is just an easy out. Just accept whatever is said as law, be fearful to even question what is written? The stories are written in a way, that it can't be proven. The mind is an incredible machine, you can put your own reality on ANYTHING...the stories are so so loosely written/based on something that if you read and accept it as your reality, guess what...it BECOMES your reality. God gave you free will, use that free will to use your brain to think & analyze. It isn't a sin. I am at odds with unquestionable faith...I have faith that God will not be angry because I question things that don't make sense. He bestowed this ability to me to utilize it. Just like scientist seek out truth, God too has given you free will to seek out your own truth.

 

Within each of us, we have the ability to be good or be bad...we have the ability to make a difference or show indifference. We are given life to either benefit or squander...It is truly my belief that no "religion" was based solely for the benefit of the believer. The origin was good/pure, but was corrupted by man. 

 

God imo is within all of us. It is our compass. You can chose to follow your internal compass and do good, or you can chose to ignore it and do things that YOU know within yourself goes against that compass.

 

 



-------------
You gon get this work Nicca


Posted By: carolina cutie
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 1:27am
Gees, New freedom hurt my feelings and I agree with her and TR.LOL




-------------
<--Classy & Educated O.

"You're telling us your beefing with your bf's mother over $1 ice cream like it was blood diamonds." RickyR



Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 2:44am
Shocked What did I say?


Posted By: Mamacita
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 10:52am

***runs in to save csungirl***

LOL i got ya back boo 



-------------
A donde el corazón se inclina, el pie camina.
***********
HL: APL
HG: BSBL
HT: 2C,3A

Body: Weight Trainin, Increase in Cal intake, Balance Diet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs3Hq4Za51k


Posted By: carolina cutie
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by NewFreedom11 NewFreedom11 wrote:

Shocked What did I say?
That verbal ether.LOL


-------------
<--Classy & Educated O.

"You're telling us your beefing with your bf's mother over $1 ice cream like it was blood diamonds." RickyR



Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 4:54pm
*Reads*

Oh, yeah. Embarrassed

LOL


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 5:10pm
@ Mamacita: That girl's alright. She retreated a long time ago.

In the great words of my southern elders: "I ain't stud'n that girl!" LOL


@Midna: Heeeey! Just now seeing your post. Welcome...goddammit, welcome! LOL


Posted By: csungrl09
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Mamacita Mamacita wrote:

***runs in to save csungirl***

LOL i got ya back boo 


thanks girl but i know when to let folks be. 


-------------
Even with a low LSAT, i'm a hot commodity.


Posted By: NewFreedom11
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 11:30pm
See, told you. She's okay. Smile



Print Page | Close Window