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People who passed or can pass for white

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Printed Date: Aug 23 2017 at 9:29am


Topic: People who passed or can pass for white
Posted By: pattigurlatl
Subject: People who passed or can pass for white
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:01am
David Matthews wrote a book on it, Ace of Spades
 
 
 
 
When David Matthews’s mother abandoned him as an infant, she left him with white skin and the rumor that he might be half Jewish. For the next twenty years, he remained torn between his actual life in the ghetto of 1980’s Baltimore and the world of white privilege he imagined. While his father, a black activist who counted Malcolm X among his friends, worked long hours as a managing editor at the Baltimore Afro-American, Matthews spent his early years escaping his father’s new wife—a blond, blue-eyed young hippie with leftist leaning and a mean right hook—and nursing an eleven-hour-a-day TV habit alongside his grandmother at the old folks’ home.

Forced to choose between black and white, he took what seemed to him the path of least resistance: he adopted the snarky persona of his well-to-do Jewish classmates, whose lives seemed so much easier than his own. Trouble was, outside of Woody Allen films and The Ten Commandments, he had no idea what being Jewish meant. And when his father moved them into a dilapidated house in the heart of the ghetto, Matthews’s light skin was no longer an easy way out: it was a liability. Haunting his every misadventure, from cross-burning to drug-deals gone awry, was his helplessness to forget the mother he never knew.



Replies:
Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:01am

The fascist who 'passed' for white

Lawrence Dennis was a leading light in the American fascist movement of the 1930s. He was a fan of Hitler and a self-avowed anti-semite. Now a new book reveals that he was actually black - although even his wife didn't know. Gary Younge reports:

Lawrence%20Dennis 'Deeply bronzed' ... American fascist Lawrence Dennis. Photograph: Charles E Steinheimer/ Getty
Lawrence Dennis was, arguably, the brains behind American fascism. He attended the Nuremberg rallies, had a personal audience with Mussolini, and met Nazi leaders; throughout the 1930s he provided the intellectual ballast for America's bourgeoning pro-fascist movement. But though his work was well known and well appreciated by the intelligentsia and political elites on both sides of the Atlantic, there was one crucial fact about him that has never emerged until now: he was black.

It turns out that the man Life magazine once described as "America's number one intellectual fascist" was, in fact, a light-skinned African American, born in the segregated South - although he "passed" for white among the greatest race hatemongers known to mankind.

In a new book, The Colour of Fascism, Gerald Horne reveals how Dennis managed to live a lie for his entire adult life. "It's not clear that his wife knew that he was black," says Horne, a history professor at the University of Houston. "He certainly never told his daughter. When she asked him, he would just smile enigmatically."

Dennis was born in Atlanta, Georgia in 1893 just as racial segregation had fully reasserted its authority on the South in the wake of the civil war. His mother was African American, as is clear from pictures; his father's race is not known. As a boy he was a famous child preacher, spreading the gospel first among black American congregations and then later abroad, even in Britain. But at some point in his adolescence, he did something quite dramatic: he cut all ties with his family so that he could attend the prestigious school of Exeter, and then Harvard, as a white man. After that he briefly pursued a career as a diplomat and broker, and then in the wake of the Wall Street Crash went on to become the public face of American fascism. None of these jobs would have been open to him had it been known he was black.

"Passing" was common in American society at the time. Despite laws against miscegenation, the pervasive practice of masters raping their slaves had produced a large number of light-skinned people. Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.

Given the manifest benefits of life on the other side of the colour line, black people who could pass as white often did, even though doing so meant cutting themselves off from their family and their past. Passing has provided the dramatic tension for many a novel, including Philip Roth's The Human Stain, Walter Moseley's Devil in a Blue Dress and, most pertinently, Nella Larsen's Passing. "Every year approximately 12,000 white-skinned Negroes disappear," Walter White, the former head of the civil rights organisation, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, claimed in the late 1940s. "People whose absence cannot be explained by death or emigration ... men and women who have decided that they will be happier and more successful if they flee from the proscription and humiliation which the American colour line imposes on them." White, who was light-skinned, used to pass himself as white at times when investigating lynch mobs in the South.

Interestingly, Dennis was dark enough to make most people look twice. The Nazi sympathiser and pilot Charles Lindbergh suspected that some of Dennis's "ancestors ... might have come from the near east". Lindbergh's wife Anne referred to Dennis's "bronzed" skin. A New York Times report in 1927 outlined Dennis's "close-cropped bristly hair and [skin] deeply bronzed by the tropical sun". A leftwing newspaper mentioned "the tall, swarthy prophet of 'intellectual fascism' ".

"Some suspected and others knew," says Horne. "But there was a don't-ask-don't-tell policy in place at the time for those on the borders of the colour line. One could perform whiteness to some degree, and that is precisely what Dennis did. His conservative politics also insulated him from a lot of further inquiry."

Years later, when he was forced to defend himself against charges of being a Nazi collaborator in a high-profile trial, one onlooker is recorded as saying that she was "puzzled and apprehensive over the fact that in nothing which I have read about Lawrence Dennis has mention been made that he is the son of a Negro mother. This fact was known to thousands, at least up to his 16th year when I knew him."

But while most people were, it seems, certain that he was no Wasp, no one seems to have had the audacity to suggest publicly that he was black either. And among the black community there was such a widespread awareness of passing that "outing" someone was considered a particularly vengeful act. "Black people then would have been very protective of his secret in a way I think they would not be now," says Horne. "He was like a slave who had escaped the plantation."

In any case, Dennis was not your run-of-the-mill fascist. He described fascism not so much as an ideology he favoured but simply as the inevitable consequence of America's political trajectory. "I took what was then considered a pro-facist view," Dennis explained in his later years. "I said that Hitler and Mussolini were rising to meet the economic crisis and that we would have to do much the same thing ... I defended them and tried to explain them; and that [brought] me under considerable criticism and attack as being a fascist ... I said the United States will have to go fascist in the same way that Germany and Italy have gone."

Dennis had in fact gone further, while still hiding behind the smokescreen of objectivity. "When analysed simply on the basis of historical fact, [Hitler] is not only the greatest political genius since Napoleon but also the most rational," he once said.

Dennis's views gained particular currency in the late 1930s as a significant portion of the US rallied against America joining the war and he launched into his most prominent period as a forthright isolationist.

Horne describes Dennis's position as both cynical and logical. "Well, you could see why he would think it was inevitable," he says. "Fascism was a far greater threat to the US than communism ever was. Dennis had no faith in the white working class. So if you believe it's going to happen you have one of two choices. You can fight against it or you can ride the wave. He decided to ride the wave and that was hard-boiled cynicism and coldly calculating."

Dennis was a prickly, arrogant character who never seemed to be happier than when he was slating the intellects of others and making references to his own superiority. In an interview with the author John Roy Carlson, he was asked about a series of congressmen with whom he was acquainted. For each one he would just say: "Dumb. No brains." The influential publisher of the Chicago Tribune company? "Dumb. No brains." On a trip to Germany he met Rudolph Hess, whom he regarded as "more of an intellectual than the others", meaning Hermann Goering and Joseph Goebbels.

Dennis was undoubtedly antisemitic - "I am no friend of the Jews," he once wrote - but his antisemitism was no more pronounced than that of most Wasps in the US at the time and less severe than that of the Nazis. "Hitler says the Jew cannot be a citizen of Germany. I consider that position to be unsound nationalism," he said. "As for any persecution or organized violence against Jews in this country, I consider it unthinkable."

Not surprisingly, perhaps, his racial politics were the most peculiar. He kept company with some of the most extreme white supremacists of his day, but despite the views of most of his friends and backers, Dennis managed both to champion fascism and subtly to maintain a distance from racist polemic.

While in Berlin, he asked Karl Boemer of Hitler's Propaganda Ministry: "Why don't you treat the Jews more or less as we treat the Negroes in America? You can practice discrimination and all that, but be a little hypocritical and moderate and do not get in conflict with American opinion." As the years went on he opposed segregation, branding the "the case against integration in the schools" as one "based on odious comparisons".

In retrospect, given his status as a black man in white drag writing for the hard right, his constant references to race in America seem reckless. "He was like an arsonist who simply could not resist returning to the scene of a crime," says Horne. But in the end it was the law rather than his race that would come into conflict with his rightwing views. For, as the war was winding down, Dennis found himself on trial for sedition; he was one of 29 defendants charged with undermining the morale of the armed forces. They were accused of being part of some kind of worldwide Nazi conspiracy. (Horne describes the trial as a farcical attempt to "frame a guilty man".)

The case collapsed after the judge had a fatal heart attack. But Dennis's world was also collapsing. Friends and financial supporters distanced themselves from him. His wife, Eleanor, who had worked as both housekeeper and secretary to his one-man intellectual operation, filed for divorce in 1956. Dennis's arrogance, it seems, had been as prominent in his personal life as in his professional life. "It is just hard to believe Eleanor can be so mad," he wrote to a friend. "What jolts me is that over 62 years in which I had lots of affairs and nearly a dozen women one time or another who seriously wanted to marry ... I never had a single one turn on me. I could meet and exchange fond memories with every one of them. This is the first time a woman ever turned on me."

Their two daughters, Emily and Laura, studied at top colleges before graduating into good marriages even as their father's fortunes declined. After his divorce, with no extended family - he had had to bid farewell to them years ago in order to pass as white - he was on his own. With subscriptions to his newsletter drying up and the cold-war era dismissive of his politics, he struggled to pay his way with bits of writing and the occasional lecture. He did marry again, though, and after his second wife died he moved in with daughter Laura.

In what may have been his most audacious act of defiance, or evidence that he had



Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:10am
Comedian Carol Channing did not admit to having a black father until she died
 
 


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:13am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

David Matthews wrote a book on it, Ace of Spades
 
 
 


Dang, based on his childhood I could see him wanting to pass if he wanted too.  It had to be tough in Baltimore with a black father being so fair skinned.


Posted By: Choco
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:14am
With both these peeps you can see a lil something other than blue blood running through thier veins.


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:15am
Carol Channing I would have never guessed.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:15am
Cleveland Indians Grady Sizemore
 


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:17am
that article was good..
 
i want to read that book


Posted By: Lilaca
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:17am
they all look white to me...wouldn't of second guessed


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:18am
Actress Rebecca Hall, I believe she was in that movie with Scarlett Johannsen and Javier Bardiem...the Barcelona Flick.
 


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:19am
Lets not forget Wentworth Miller




Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Lilaca Lilaca wrote:

they all look white to me...wouldn't of second guessed


+1


Posted By: Choco
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:19am
But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:24am
Famous writer Anatole Broyard passed for white. I posted his story in the Black History thread.
 


Posted By: dynamite23
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:25am
they all look white to me. This is so interesting!


Posted By: Malwina
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:26am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink


yeah but that was in damn 1919


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:26am
It's rumored that Mae West's grandfather may have been black.
 


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:27am
Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:

Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink


yeah but that was in damn 1919
 
the rules still apply today dont they??
 
how many threads have we had on this??
 


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:29am
America's Top Model contestant Jael Strauss
(mother is AA)
 


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink

Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:


yeah but that was in damn 1919
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

the rules still apply today dont they??
 
how many threads have we had on this??
 


About 457,983,345,889.  Its still true today even on BHM!


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:33am
American cartoonist, best known for his comic strip Krazy Kat (which helped inspire Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes).
 
He was a Louisiana Creole and moved to Los Angeles. He wore hats to hide his kinky hair and on his death certificate he is listed as white.


Posted By: Choco
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:34am
Hot dayum! That is kinda rigid! Glad this is so not the case in Europe where both sides of your ethincity are recognized!


Posted By: LiberianQueen83
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:35am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

America's Top Model contestant Jael Strauss
(mother is AA)
 



She didn't pass for white though....that was like one of the first things that came out of her mouth...that her mom is black/part black


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:35am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

American cartoonist, best known for his comic strip Krazy Kat (which helped inspire Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes).
 
He was a Louisiana Creole and moved to Los Angeles. He wore hats to hide his kinky hair and on his death certificate he is listed as white.


I am a Louisiana Creole and these complexions are not uncommon.  This is why I said I would not have known Carol Channing was black.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:35am
Actress Jessica Szohr
 


Posted By: EPITOME
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:37am
ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)


Posted By: Malwina
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:37am
Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:

Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink

Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:


yeah but that was in damn 1919
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

the rules still apply today dont they??
 
how many threads have we had on this??
 


About 457,983,345,889.  Its still true today even on BHM!


Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:

Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink

Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:


yeah but that was in damn 1919
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

the rules still apply today dont they??
 
how many threads have we had on this??
 


About 457,983,345,889.  Its still true today even on BHM!


LOLLOLLOLCry

seriously, this is so *&%^$#@Ein ridiculous..... so yall CONSCIOUSLY holding on to this backwardness

now i know where the black diversity myth spreaders are comin from though


Posted By: prettygirlmin04
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:38am
Anatole Broyard is really the only person in this thread so far who I wouldn't have guessed. The others, I can see it.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:38am
Originally posted by LiberianQueen83 LiberianQueen83 wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

America's Top Model contestant Jael Strauss
(mother is AA)
 



She didn't pass for white though....that was like one of the first things that came out of her mouth...that her mom is black/part black
Thanks I wasn't sure about her because I don't watch that show.
 
And to be fair, with the people I posted who are around today, I don't really think they are passing but not really talking about their background unless it comes up. Like The Rock, Dwayne Johnson for instance. He doesn't deny it, if it comes up it comes up. I'm sure the same goes for th at baseball player.
 
Not sure about Wentworth Miller though.


Posted By: dynamite23
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:40am
Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)



damnOuch


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:42am
J. Edgar Hoover (this is a rumor but a black author, Millie McGhee, says she is related to him so I dunno)
 


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:42am
malwina.....
 
i dont know whether to laugh or cry for you.
 
fyi, no one in this thread is holding onto a backward rule. thats the first thing.
 
the second thing is YOU obviously misunderstood what the excerpt was referring to. My ensuing comments reiterated the fact (though less explicitly) that this law albeit much less enforced is still applied by society to a never ending degree.
 
geez..... i thought that much was obvious.
 
malwina you're a smart lass... dont act slow now love.


Posted By: prettygirlmin04
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:42am
I am starting to get confused, not at you Patti


Posted By: Malwina
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:43am
Originally posted by dynamite23 dynamite23 wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)



damnOuch


and THATS WHY they called it passing

they WERE White, but had obvious mulattas in very near ancestry and you cannot hide that fact unless you move somewhere

and even then all it takes to expose you is a 1 glance in documents


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:43am
Famous artist Romare Bearden
 


Posted By: EPITOME
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:43am
Originally posted by dynamite23 dynamite23 wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)



damnOuch
 
 
anatole didnt speak to his family that looked blacker than him. it's what you gotta do


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:

Originally posted by dynamite23 dynamite23 wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)



damnOuch


and THATS WHY they called it passing

they WERE White, but had obvious mulattas in very near ancestry and you cannot hide that fact unless you move somewhere

and even then all it takes to expose you is a 1 glance in documents
There is a book by Nella Larsen called Passing. It is a wonderful read because it is about 2 friends. One passes and one doesn't and in the end there is drama. It's fictional but very, very good.


Posted By: dynamite23
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:46am
Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

Originally posted by dynamite23 dynamite23 wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

ive read about anatole broyard (but not his daughters book. apparently she and her brother took a genetic test which said they had 0% black blood but took another that said they had about 13% which meant Anatole was at max a quadroon)
 
passing is a tough choice to make bc you cannot associate with your family or anyone who cannot pass (at least in the past that was the rule)



damnOuch
 
 
anatole didnt speak to his family that looked blacker than him. it's what you gotta do



what a damn shameUnhappy. All to claim the benefits of being white?


Posted By: ThoughtCouture
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:48am
very interesting...i'm gonna grab that book passing...


Posted By: Choco
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:48am
In "those days" maybe denying your blackness did work in your favour, come 2010 do people still do this?


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:50am
 
Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

But how black is black are thier bilogical parents black?
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Under America's rigidly enforced codes of racial supremacy, any child of a mixed-race relationship was deemed "black", regardless of their complexion. They called it the one-drop rule: one drop of "black blood" made you black.
 
 
 
an excerot from the article pattie posted Wink

Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:


yeah but that was in damn 1919
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

the rules still apply today dont they??
 
how many threads have we had on this??
 

Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:


About 457,983,345,889.  Its still true today even on BHM!


  
Originally posted by Malwina Malwina wrote:



LOLLOLLOLCry

seriously, this is so *&%^$#@Ein ridiculous..... so yall CONSCIOUSLY holding on to this backwardness

now i know where the black diversity myth spreaders are comin from though


LOL LOL No more than your ill informed comment.  Spatting out what you think are e-slick comments on subjects you have no personal experience on which don't even apply to the comment your responding to.   Someone being considered black by the one drop rule does not create black diversity "Slick". Big%20smile  The person makes the decision to abide by the (white man's that blacks accept) rule or not.  Black diversity comes from ignorance.

And I'm not holding on to anything simply reiterating what is believed in areas across this country and on BHM. Big%20smile
LOL


Posted By: Az~Maverick
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:51am
Jennifer Beals









Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:51am
Jazz great, Keith Jarrett, is not black but all his life people thought he was. He could pass for black.
 


Posted By: Harmonii
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:52am
I know Wentworth Miller always claimed he had black in him.  I remember when Prision Break first came out, and he was doing an interview, i forgot how much he said, but he says he's black.  He's so sexy to me


Posted By: lucy1987
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:52am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Jazz great, Keith Jarrett, is not black but all his life people thought he was. He could pass for black.
 
 
 
 
so what is he? all white?


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:53am
Singer Phoebe Snow could pass for black as well but is not.
 


Posted By: slayfresh
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:53am
I had no idea that Dave Matthews was black. I see him around downtown here and there.


Posted By: EPITOME
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:54am
patti- i read that book this summer.
 
i was also into reading about affluent blacks in the the 19th century


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:55am
Originally posted by lucy1987 lucy1987 wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Jazz great, Keith Jarrett, is not black but all his life people thought he was. He could pass for black.
 
 
 
 
so what is he? all white?
Yep all white. Of Hungarian descent.
 
 
 


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:56am
Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

patti- i read that book this summer.
 
i was also into reading about affluent blacks in the the 19th century
I loved that book!
 
You may have to share your reading list with me.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:57am
Actress Fredi Washington was advised by many to pass for white but she never did.
 
 


Posted By: prettygirlmin04
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:58am
^^she's beautiful Smile


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:59am
Walter Francis White who led the NAACP for 25 years NEVER denied his black heritage and he looked whiter than white.
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Walter_Francis_White.jpg" rel="no follow">File:Walter%20Francis%20White.jpg


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Choco Choco wrote:

In "those days" maybe denying your blackness did work in your favour, come 2010 do people still do this?


I know of two people in Louisiana who did but they are in their 60s or 70s now.  I have to guess it was for better opportunities in their circle/location back then.  I'm not sure if they are still even in the state. 

You would think in 2010 it would not be necessary but hell there is still an uproar about females trying to be what the rappers seem to praise in songs and videos - lite, bright skin.   Who knows. Someone who looks white to the average person - not a BHM expert - may feel compelled.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:03am
Abolitionist Robert Purvis could have passed but didn't
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Robert_Purvis_daguerreotype_BPL.jpg" rel="no follow">File:Robert%20Purvis%20daguerreotype%20BPL.jpg


Posted By: afrokock
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:04am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

patti- i read that book this summer.
 
i was also into reading about affluent blacks in the the 19th century
 
You may have to share your reading list with me.
 
+1


Posted By: shebastacey
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:04am
I'd like to add Ronnie Spector of the Ronettes. She would joke that the white one in the group was mistaken for Latino, the Latino one for Black and the Black one (her) White.
When she dated John Lennon, being that she was only 17 or 18, her grandmother insisted he come to Harlem to pick her up so she could meet him and he could only take her out in the neighborhood. She took him to Sherman's. LOL I love me some Sherman's chicken with the spaghetti with the bar-b-que sauce on it. Ha. Ha.


Posted By: Malwina
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:05am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Walter Francis White who led the NAACP for 25 years NEVER denied his black heritage and he looked whiter than white.
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Walter_Francis_White.jpg" rel="no follow">File:Walter%20Francis%20White.jpg



ohhhh right i was just about to ask you whats his name was


and the best thing is that NAACP ostracized him when he married a white woman

the case with him was that she had few Black slave greatgreatgrandparents or something, no?


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:05am
Former Hockey Player Dirk Graham, 1/4 black...is that octaroon? I think I posted a chart in the black history thread. Nonetheless he never denied his heritage either.
 


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:08am
Charles W. Chesnutt was an author and political essayist and activist born of 2 "free people of color".
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Charles_W_Chesnutt_40.jpg" rel="no follow">File:Charles%20W%20Chesnutt%2040.jpg


Posted By: Merin
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:12am
Originally posted by afrokock afrokock wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by EPITOME EPITOME wrote:

patti- i read that book this summer.
 
i was also into reading about affluent blacks in the the 19th century
 
You may have to share your reading list with me.
 
+1


+2


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:12am
British actor Stephen Graham openly discusses his mixed heritage
 


Posted By: Honeyflower89
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:13am
Patti, do you know anything about Mark Salling's (Puck from Glee) background? I'm convinced he's mixed with black.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:15am
Canadian band Bare Naked Ladies
 
The 2nd guy from the left's dad is black but his mother didn't tell him  until he was an adult.


Posted By: tantoine
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:16am


^ Danzy Senna. She wrote a novel about passing called Caucasia. Still is one of my fav books.


Patti, something in me wants to scream "you a lie negro" to Keith Jarrett.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Honeyflower89 Honeyflower89 wrote:

Patti, do you know anything about Mark Salling's (Puck from Glee) background? I'm convinced he's mixed with black.
I don't know anything about him but I think I know who you're talking about. I was watching the cast of Glee being interviewed and one of the guys caught my eye. He gave me the vibe I get when I watch Minnie Driver or Bob Barr. It's that feeling that comedian Paul Mooney has said a few times, "You know if you shake that person's family tree, a n*gga is gonna fall out". LOL


Posted By: purple.chuckz
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:18am
Originally posted by slayfresh slayfresh wrote:

I had no idea that Dave Matthews was black. I see him around downtown here and there.


From the Dave Matthews Band? I think he is White South African.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:20am
Yep he's the one. I want to shake his tree.
 
 
 
 
And LOL @ tantoine. That Keith Jarrett one really has me baffled.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:20am
Originally posted by purple.chuckz purple.chuckz wrote:

Originally posted by slayfresh slayfresh wrote:

I had no idea that Dave Matthews was black. I see him around downtown here and there.


From the Dave Matthews Band? I think he is White South African.
No that's a different Dave Matthews.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:22am
Calypso singer Denyse Plummer
 


Posted By: Honeyflower89
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:22am
I remember last year, he did an interview on the Wendy Williams show and she straight up asked him what his background was and all he said was 'I'm whatever you want me to be.' Patti, I want to shake his family tree as well lol.


Posted By: Maple Syrup
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:22am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Canadian band Bare Naked Ladies
 
The 2nd guy from the left's dad is black but his mother didn't tell him  until he was an adult.


Patti, it's  Tyler Stewart ( the guy on the extreme right) that is black, and he would since he was a kid.


Posted By: Lilaca
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:23am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Actress Fredi Washington was advised by many to pass for white but she never did.
 
 
very pretty


Posted By: Honeyflower89
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Dictionary Dictionary wrote:

Originally posted by Honeyflower89 Honeyflower89 wrote:

Patti, do you know anything about Mark Salling's (Puck from Glee) background? I'm convinced he's mixed with black.


Are you Ethiopians or Somalian? [IMG]http://talk.blackhairmedia.com/smileys/smiley9.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Embarrassed" />


Nope, I'm neither.


Posted By: Merin
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:24am
This is an interesting post. I am aware of the one-drop rule and believe it rings true. To me personally race has more to do with appearance and perception then actual lineage. 


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:26am
If the rumor that her father is black is true and she shuns that side of her family, then Gabrielle Reece would be a modern day "passer pour blanc".
 
Well I read that she never denies that her dad was black. But apparently she had a terrible childhood but I still consider her a "passe".


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Maple Syrup Maple Syrup wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Canadian band Bare Naked Ladies
 
The 2nd guy from the left's dad is black but his mother didn't tell him  until he was an adult.


Patti, it's  Tyler Stewart ( the guy on the extreme right) that is black, and he would since he was a kid.
Thank you for correcting me. Are you saying he knew or he didn't know?


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:29am
Martin Lee Gore from Depeche Mode
mother didn't tell him til later in life as well that his dad was black
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Martin_Gore_in_2009.jpg" rel="no follow">
 


Posted By: Afrocentchic
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:29am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Singer Phoebe Snow could pass for black as well but is not.
 
wow, she looks like a cousin of mine.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:31am
British soccer player Ryan Giggs
 
 
Him as a child with his dad
 
 


Posted By: shebastacey
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:34am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

British soccer player Ryan Giggs
 
 
Him as a child with his dad
 
 
Oh, my gosh. He looks like my friend's father. LOL Her father was famous in Harlme for wearing dashikis and the Magnum P.I. mustache. Looking like Stedman. LOL


Posted By: LiberianQueen83
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:36am



Posted By: Jess
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:37am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

If the rumor that her father is black is true and she shuns that side of her family, then Gabrielle Reece would be a modern day "passer pour blanc".
 
Well I read that she never denies that her dad was black. But apparently she had a terrible childhood but I still consider her a "passe".
Shocked Is her mom Swedish or from that area?


Posted By: Jess
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:38am

I think they said he was part Sudanese.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:38am
Interesting story about a white man who lived a double life as a black man and married a black woman too.
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Clarence_King.jpg" rel="no follow">File:Clarence%20King.jpg
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_King" rel="no follow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_King
 
[1842 - 1901]

Clarence King was a blond blue blood from Newport who distinguished himself at an early age. He traveled West in the 1860s, found work with the California State Geological Survey, helped to map the Sierra and became geologist in charge of the United States Geological Exploration of the 40th Parallel in 1867, when he was 25. He then became a familiar luminary in both New York and Washington. But his early years of roaming were just a prelude to what seems to have been a permanently rootless state.

Or so it seemed to his friends, who became used to his unexpected absences and thought of him as a perennial bachelor. What they did not know was that when Clarence was not living in various clubs and hotels, he was married and the father of five children.

He was deeply devoted to his wife, (Ada Copeland), a black woman 19 years his junior. This blue-eyed man, descended from signers of the Magna Carta, had successfully cultivated the impression that he was black, too.

The existence of Ada and their children became publicly known only in 1933, at a trial in which Ada tried to recover the trust fund Clarence had promised her.

He had been dead for more than 30 years, so the shock waves generated by the trial were considerable. Most dramatic, is the way that revisionists demoted Clarence from hero to "tragic hero," not to mention "the most lavishly overpraised man of his time," upon discovering that he had been married to a former slave. This was typical of the sickening headlines surrounding the trial: "Mammy Bares Life as Wife of Scientist."

All of this has long been a matter of record. The fact that King went further than merely marrying Ada and concealing her existence from his friends and family. He also adopted the name James Todd, under which he married Ada, and claimed to be a Pullman Porter, a job held exclusively by black workers. Employment on a train helped explain to Ada why he was so well traveled and so frequently absent from home. (Later he would claim to be a clerk and a steelworker too.)

Clarence's wife Ada came from Georgia, was born pre-Emancipation and traveled to New York City to live as a domestic and children's nursemaid. In other words, she went from one set of strictures to another, and only with King did she achieve some kind of autonomy in a middle-class household.

Todd family members were variously designated "white," "negro" or "mulatto," based not on evidence but on context. Ada and Clarence's sons were deemed black when seen with their dark-skinned mother. But their two daughters married white men and effectively turned themselves into white women.

"Civilization so narrows the gamut!" King once wrote to Hay. "Respectability lets the human pendulum swing over such a pitiful little arc." But in rebelling against that notion, King created an arc wider than anything he might have imagined and lived a more profound lie than dissemblers about race or gender usually can.

The book 'Passing Strange' by Martha A. Sandweiss offers a fine, mesmerizing account of how one extremely secretive man, "acting from a complicated mix of loyalty and self-interest, reckless desire and social conservatism," could encapsulate his country's shifting ideas about race in the course of one family's anything but black-and-white history.

*Dying of tuberculosis he would eventually reveal his secret to his wife and children. His wife (Ada Copeland) assumed her husband to be a 'mulatto.' *

"PASSING STRANGE"
A Gilded Age Tale
of Love and Deception
Across the Color Line
By Martha A. Sandweiss
Penguin Press


Posted By: Maple Syrup
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:39am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by Maple Syrup Maple Syrup wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Canadian band Bare Naked Ladies
 
The 2nd guy from the left's dad is black but his mother didn't tell him  until he was an adult.


Patti, it's  Tyler Stewart ( the guy on the extreme right) that is black, and he would since he was a kid.
Thank you for correcting me. Are you saying he knew or he didn't know?


sorry, His mom told him when he was 12.


Posted By: shebastacey
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:39am
One of my favorite musicians is Phil Lynott the front man for the band Thin Lizzy. He never tried to "pass" or anything. But I love Lita Ford's quote about him.  Black. Grew up working class Irish. Plays Rock & Roll bass. That's the perfect Rock God recipe. LOL
 
They tried to take him away from his mother many times when he was baby. They felt like she was bringing shame to her family and community because she insisted on raising her half-African baby. That's hate right there.


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Jess Jess wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

If the rumor that her father is black is true and she shuns that side of her family, then Gabrielle Reece would be a modern day "passer pour blanc".
 
Well I read that she never denies that her dad was black. But apparently she had a terrible childhood but I still consider her a "passe".
Shocked Is her mom Swedish or from that area?
It appears to be unknown or she isn't divulging that since it is a painful thing to talk about. Her mother just dumped her with friends. She was born in Trinidad and her father was a black Trinidadian who was killed in a plane accident when she was 5, I believe.


Posted By: tantoine
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:40am
Wow that's some super love.


Posted By: Maple Syrup
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Jess Jess wrote:


I think they said he was part Sudanese.


Yea, he is. He took one of those DNA test I think. His African heritage is like 6 generations back.


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Merin Merin wrote:

This is an interesting post. I am aware of the one-drop rule and believe it rings true. To me personally race has more to do with appearance and perception then actual lineage. 


Clap


Posted By: LadyCC
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Afrocentchic Afrocentchic wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Singer Phoebe Snow could pass for black as well but is not.
 
wow, she looks like a cousin of mine.


She has the voice of an angel. Heart


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:45am
Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:

Originally posted by Merin Merin wrote:

This is an interesting post. I am aware of the one-drop rule and believe it rings true. To me personally race has more to do with appearance and perception then actual lineage. 


Clap
On some level I agree but then where does someone like the child of Victoria Rowell fit in? She is a beautiful young woman and she identifies herself as black and looks like a regular white girl.
 
 


Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Maple Syrup Maple Syrup wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by Maple Syrup Maple Syrup wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Canadian band Bare Naked Ladies
 
The 2nd guy from the left's dad is black but his mother didn't tell him  until he was an adult.


Patti, it's  Tyler Stewart ( the guy on the extreme right) that is black, and he would since he was a kid.
Thank you for correcting me. Are you saying he knew or he didn't know?



sorry, His mom told him when he was 12.

 

Thank you Maple!!!



Posted By: Merin
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:49am
Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:

Originally posted by Merin Merin wrote:

This is an interesting post. I am aware of the one-drop rule and believe it rings true. To me personally race has more to do with appearance and perception then actual lineage. 


Clap
On some level I agree but then where does someone like the child of Victoria Rowell fit in? She is a beautiful young woman and she identifies herself as black and looks like a regular white girl.
 
 


I can see why she would identify herself as black being raised by a black women. However when she walks down the street society perceives her a "white". She actually has to tell people otherwise. I know a few people in the same predicament and they have some interesting stories. This is why I fear having a child that comes out "white".


Posted By: ladymzlee
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:52am
Has anyone mentioned Anderson Cooper yet? Stern%20SmileGeekWink. One of the best well-kept secrets.


Posted By: LiberianQueen83
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Az~Maverick Az~Maverick wrote:

Jennifer Beals










I always thought she looks a little like my sister-in-law( probably not the best example) LOL





Posted By: pattigurlatl
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Merin Merin wrote:

Originally posted by pattigurlatl pattigurlatl wrote:

Originally posted by LadyCC LadyCC wrote:

Originally posted by Merin Merin wrote:

This is an interesting post. I am aware of the one-drop rule and believe it rings true. To me personally race has more to do with appearance and perception then actual lineage. 


Clap
On some level I agree but then where does someone like the child of Victoria Rowell fit in? She is a beautiful young woman and she identifies herself as black and looks like a regular white girl.
 
 


I can see why she would identify herself as black being raised by a black women. However when she walks down the street society perceives her a "white". She actually has to tell people otherwise. I know a few people in the same predicament and they have some interesting stories. This is why I fear having a child that comes out "white".
Ugh. It shouldn't be a fear for you but I understand.Cry
 
 


Posted By: ladymzlee
Date Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Zupreme Zupreme wrote:

and taylor lautner. nobody can tell me that boy is full white. NO ONE. lol
 
There is no way in hayul that chile is all white LOL.



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