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Nurse refuse to perform CPR .

 
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PeacefulOne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeacefulOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 1:30am
Originally posted by Katrenia Katrenia wrote:

I don't work in the medical profession, I wonder how often these care givers become desensitized to death and the dying?? The nurse definitely seems to be lacking sensitivity, by her demeanor you'd think she was speaking about a car dying. 
 
Having been a nurse 20 years, I can tell you it does happen.  Not that you don't care, just that you get to know that death is a part of life, and you are not going to save everyone;  if I brought every death home with me, I would be surrounded by ghosts!
 
My problem with this case is: if the woman was a DNR, the nurse should have stated that, and that would have been the end of it.  She didn't need to go into the policies of the institution, because the policies and proceedures of the 911 operator are clearly different.  She sould have asked for an ambulance for a nonresponsive patient with a dnr order in place, or FOLLOWED the operator's instructions to give cpr.  Or better yet, put the woman in her bed and call the family.  Give her some dignity, sheesh!
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MizzAmirah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MizzAmirah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 3:47am
Originally posted by PeacefulOne PeacefulOne wrote:

Originally posted by Katrenia Katrenia wrote:

I don't work in the medical profession, I wonder how often these care givers become desensitized to death and the dying?? The nurse definitely seems to be lacking sensitivity, by her demeanor you'd think she was speaking about a car dying. 
 
Having been a nurse 20 years, I can tell you it does happen.  Not that you don't care, just that you get to know that death is a part of life, and you are not going to save everyone;  if I brought every death home with me, I would be surrounded by ghosts!
 
My problem with this case is: if the woman was a DNR, the nurse should have stated that, and that would have been the end of it.  She didn't need to go into the policies of the institution, because the policies and proceedures of the 911 operator are clearly different.  She sould have asked for an ambulance for a nonresponsive patient with a dnr order in place, or FOLLOWED the operator's instructions to give cpr.  Or better yet, put the woman in her bed and call the family.  Give her some dignity, sheesh!

Don;t be surprised that the pt IS  a DNR and the nurse is just and airhead that sorta likes drama and wouldn't just mention that.Sleepy
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joileprincess View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote joileprincess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 6:17am
This facility was a assisted living situation and NOT a nursing home. If California is like Illinois, the nursing role there is different. The assisted living environment is like a hybrid, a residential living arrangement with some additional accommodations. The residents must be relatively higher functioning than for a nursing home and certainly more medically stable. The nurses and CNA's assist the residents in living independently as if they were in their own home. If appropriate/applicable, they can receive outside services such as PT, OT, Podiatry, MD visits, and Hospice.

Now, all that being said, the facility that I was with required that all nurses and CNA's be trained in CPR. That is standard for nurses and CNA's anyway.  Now that I think about it, I assumed that I was to use it. Thankfully it never came up while I was there.

I can see the hesitancy though. You want to help but what if that help results in litigation? And if that facility has a hands off policy, they will likely stand behind that. What happens if you get lose your livelihood trying to help someone else?
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nitabug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nitabug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 11:40am
Originally posted by bg bg wrote:

She followed protocol.
Yep and I am not mad. It's all fun and games until the family sues for cracked ribs....especially after the lawyer finds out she wasn't authorized to give care.

She did what she was supposed to do. Follow SOP, everything else is on the family/company.
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Tbaby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 11:55am
I will read the whole thread later
If the facility isn't "licensed" to give medical care, then why did they hire a nurse?




Edited by Tbaby - Mar 05 2013 at 11:55am
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dijah.love View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dijah.love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 11:57am
“The policy on paper may make sense,” he said, “but policy be damned when someone’s life is at stake.”

My sentiments exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 11:59am
Originally posted by MizzAmirah MizzAmirah wrote:

Nobody is obligated to perform cpr to anyone unless they are employed in healthcare and are trained to do so. Untrained people are not encouraged to perform cpr, so there's no OBLIGATION to perform it. This article doesn't mention the resident's code status, unless I missed it somewhere. And survival rates post-cpr outside the hospital setting is very low. 
Anywho, unless the patient in this story is a DNR, the nurse is supposed to perform cpr without being told by anyone. Unless she is untrained, then she has no business working in healthcare.

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I'd be more concerned about losing my license as a nurse by not performing CPR and watching a person die then losing my job...forget it being company policy.  I bet the state licensing agency will be reviewing this case.



Edited by Tbaby - Mar 05 2013 at 12:00pm
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rickysrose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickysrose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 12:06pm
They said she did not have a dnr order in place

That's a tough situation to be in, but she could've sounded more compassionate and urgent

This is something that is likely to happen in an alf they should have a quick, easily repeatable plan 
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Tbaby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 12:19pm
Why call 911 if there is a DNR order? That doesn't make sense.  Not that they shouldn't have done anything, but saying that a DNR order "gets them off the hook for refusing CPR" is questionable.

Besides that, they aren't set up for emergency resucitiative care anyway, other then having a defibrillator in the halls I'm guessing.



Edited by Tbaby - Mar 05 2013 at 12:20pm
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nitabug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nitabug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2013 at 12:24pm
how is that questionable if there is a dnr?That's the purpose of a dnr.
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