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kfoxx1998 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:18am
Originally posted by patternsandtexture patternsandtexture wrote:

Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I know its the standard term but I'm not a "non-believer".  I believe in lots of thingsSmile

Anyway I'm old enough to do / say whatever I want so I didn't give it much thought.   My mother was mad/sad, wants to save my son from hell and cried because she believes she won't be able to see me in heaven.  I told her not to worry about that because...... 


 
That's crazy!!! I'm sorry to hear that.


No worries.  My momma is crazy anyway and I think she be frontin on Jesus.  She's a non-repentant sinner who believes God "understands" her and I love her crazy ass.   I know this because I asked her how she was so sure she was going to heavenLOL

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Random Thoughts View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Random Thoughts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:28am
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I know its the standard term but I'm not a "non-believer".  I believe in lots of thingsSmile

Anyway I'm old enough to do / say whatever I want so I didn't give it much thought.   My mother was mad/sad, wants to save my son from hell and cried because she believes she won't be able to see me in heaven.  I told her not to worry about that because...... 




Matt Dillahunty of the Atheist Experience gave an interesting talk about that topic. Pretty much saying that Heaven doesn't make sense because his mother would be sad in Heaven because he would be in hell. I don't wanna totally butcher his argument so let me find it.


Starting at 11:45

"My mom is a Christian and she is convinced she is going to Heaven. If she is correct, she'll end up in Heaven and I'll end up in Hell. And yet that would make my mom sad. Since there is no sadness in Heaven, then whatever that entity is in Heaven, it's not my mom. It couldn't be. Because we are human, the best we can hope for is that there is some facsimile of "you" there. But it wouldn't actually be "you." Because being "you" requires you to be able to empathize with people or feel things including pain, sadness, and things like that. So under that model, no one that has ever died will be in Heaven."

Goes on to talk about memories, personalities, knowledge, and such being the thing that makes a person who they are...and if they don't have access to those things in Heaven...if they get a spiritual lobotomy of some sort before entering in, then it's not really "them".


Edited by Random Thoughts - Dec 10 2013 at 11:29am
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patternsandtexture View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patternsandtexture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:37am
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

J it sounds like what you really need is advice on how to navigate the 100% certain criticism and "fight" you will get from your family.  It's not something you "have to" reveal to them but I see how this is inevitable in your case.   Hopefully more ARs will hit this thread with advice but here is mine.

The only arguments you will get are arguments of faith.  Faith doesn't require facts or evidence but a conscience choice to believe / disbelieve what has been passed down from the ancient Abrahamic religions (at least in America).  Faith can't really be explained, it just is so it often leads to anger, lashing out, quoting the disputed "facts", etc. 

Your best bet is to focus on the respect you have for the person, not whether you agree with what they are saying.   Treat them with kindness in your approach and try to understand that faith can be both fragile and rigid.  Basically I'm saying it may not be worth moving to the front of your relationships with family members but if it happens, keep in mind that you are questioning something they need to believe very much.  They're not just giving you a hard time, they actually have a visceral reaction to the idea that their faith could potentially be in vain.  

Imma just go on and tell you to put your competitive nature in check before allowing yourself to get into a shouting match about something that you can comfortably navigate w/o putting to the "argument" to the test.   You can lead by example to others in the family who feel the same way and focus on keeping the peace.

My only exception to that is if/when I see them using religion to "shame" another family member.  They already know I'm going to go off so they don't do it around me anymore. 
 
Yeah, I know. It will be like "aarggghhh" and I have a hard time holding myself back when it comes to discussions. I don't even want to discuss it more than once really to be honest. There will be a lot of unncessary Ad hominem going around and I will be going on the basis of the faith itself. I'm more agnostic so a deity existing is a possibility, but at the same time, a lot of the stuff disproves that the deity in the bible is true. Genesis kinda destroys any argument that it holds water.
 
If it can not be studied or tested and proven than I don't hold my breathe on it. It's pointless to me, cause the evidence is not there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sang Froid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:42am
We don't talk about religion like ever in our house.
My grandparents and most of my extended family are in church though.
But discussions about religion don't come up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote fckwitmeuknoigotit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:43am
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

J it sounds like what you really need is advice on how to navigate the 100% certain criticism and "fight" you will get from your family.  It's not something you "have to" reveal to them but I see how this is inevitable in your case.   Hopefully more ARs will hit this thread with advice but here is mine.

The only arguments you will get are arguments of faith.  Faith doesn't require facts or evidence but a conscience choice to believe / disbelieve what has been passed down from the ancient Abrahamic religions (at least in America).  Faith can't really be explained, it just is so it often leads to anger, lashing out, quoting the disputed "facts", etc. 

Your best bet is to focus on the respect you have for the person, not whether you agree with what they are saying.   Treat them with kindness in your approach and try to understand that faith can be both fragile and rigid.  Basically I'm saying it may not be worth moving to the front of your relationships with family members but if it happens, keep in mind that you are questioning something they need to believe very much.  They're not just giving you a hard time, they actually have a visceral reaction to the idea that their faith could potentially be in vain.  

Imma just go on and tell you to put your competitive nature in check before allowing yourself to get into a shouting match about something that you can comfortably navigate w/o putting to the "argument" to the test.   You can lead by example to others in the family who feel the same way and focus on keeping the peace.

My only exception to that is if/when I see them using religion to "shame" another family member.  They already know I'm going to go off so they don't do it around me anymore. 
thanks for this advice. when i said non believers i should have been specific and said people who don't believe in jesus christ or christianity.  but i'm gonna sit back and soak in all the info ya'll post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote Sang Froid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:43am
I remember when I first found those Atheist experience videos.
I watched them for like a week straight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Random Thoughts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 11:50am
Yeah I listen to the Atheist Experience podcast every sunday night when I workout. The weeks when Matt and Tracie are the hosts are must-listens since they are constantly ethering the callers.




Edited by Random Thoughts - Dec 10 2013 at 12:00pm
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kfoxx1998 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Random Thoughts Random Thoughts wrote:

Yeah I listen to the Atheist Experience podcast every sunday night when I workout. The weeks when Matt and Tracie are the hosts are must-listens since they are constantly ethering the callers.


First time seeing anything about this podcast.  I hate being forced to be blunt on this subject but in the case of my mom I did hit her with a truth bomb about heaven/hell.   She was so sure her argument was solid but once I saidt neither existed from my perspective she got mad and started yelling.  She is genuinely funny as hell when she's cursing so after I finished crying I just changed the subject. 

I try so hard not to be dismissive but after a while I feel stupid talking about things that I don't believe exist in the first place.  I've said before its like debating who would win in a fight between fictional characters.  You can talk about the skills and abilities and how they stack up to each other, who has what weapons and how those weapons compare etc but you're basically putting time and energy into arguing for/against something that's not even realLOL


Edited by kfoxx1998 - Dec 10 2013 at 12:00pm
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kfoxx1998 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 12:07pm
lol...listening to the first video.  Sex in HeavenLOL
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patternsandtexture View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patternsandtexture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2013 at 12:22pm

Listening to the second vid and the caller is an idiot, love the woman she makes a great points

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