Black Hair Media Forum Homepage
BHM BHM BHM
CoCo Black Hair
Forum Home Forum Home > The Archives > Talk Archives
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Is your Church a business?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login
Extensions Plus
 

Forum LockedIs your Church a business?

 
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
It Always Begin With Beautiful Hair

Premier Lace Wigs

Mynx Hair

Author
victoriafleur View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member
Avatar

Joined: Jun 24 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 614
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is your Church a business?
    Posted: May 15 2005 at 1:31pm

I came across these figures in Businessweek today and I thought it would be insightful to see how people feel about this.

Its about how Churches are becoming businesses and adopting a ruthless market approach to gaining new converts/consumers? As for me, I like modern churches but it forced me to ask myself whether I was supporting Jesus or the pastor...

- Joel Osteen has 30,000 people at his church. He pays 15 million a year in broadcasting and has his secondary marketing tool, his book which brought him 2.5 million. He offers perks and buy one get one frees: free financial counselling, fidelity groups for men addicted to sex and even low cost bulk food. He takes in 55 million annually in contributions and will soon build a 90 million dollar church

- Most mega churches gain roughly 2.3- 3.3 million through the sale of religious books. Christian radio is now a business and there are now 2014 such stations in the US alone. At some churches kids are lured in with Disney parks, people with MBA's from Harvard manage a lot of these churches together with the Senior Pastor.

- The growth of Bible zines ( Christian magazines): using the concept of niche market there is a Hip Hop Bible, Teen Girls Bible, churches that cater for bikers and cowboys.

- Rick Warren's book used the pyro marketing technique to reach sales of 23 million copies.( I'ma stil buy it though, I am curious ) He sold them to pastors at 7 dollars who gave them to their congregations as gifts and those people who got them free were enouraged to give them as gifts etc.

- Willowcreek Church: 427 employees, 10 000 volunteers: they run  conferences ( teaching other churches to be more business like ): 110,000 fee paying pastors attend. Annual revenue: 26 million, bookstore: 3.2 million, coffeeshops and restaurants: 2.5 million,  17 million from conferences , and 0.3 million from summer camps.

- Creflo Dollar drives a Porsche and rides in a Gulfstream jet. He has churches in Brother Mania and South Africa ( I wonder why he didnt put them in Botswana where all the poor people need God...) , he says God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servants. But Joel Osteen repaid his church all the salary he took while he was just a pastor.

- Some churches hold franchises: Potters House, LifeChurch with brand loyalty.

I mean I am for modernising and everything but I think God's word is definitely being compromised here in some cases...

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Beyondcute View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Sep 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1710
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 1:42pm
Girl let the church say amen! I am so sick of people turning the church into a business. Preachers, nuns, priests, rabbis, etc are supposed to enjoy god and not use him for marketing. Churches should be NON PROFIT organizations. Too many of them are turning into coporations. 
Back to Top
thischick View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: Mar 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 718
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 2:33pm

Wow that's amazing.

Frankly, I've never understood why preachers, pastors, rabbis, priests etc get paid in the first place.

Didn't Jesus say "you received free, give free"?

Back to Top
victoriafleur View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member
Avatar

Joined: Jun 24 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 614
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 3:11pm

He makes it seem justifiable....

What do you think?

Church of the Mighty Dollar
How do Rolls-Royces fit into God's plan? The founder of the World Changers Church International explains all

With houses of worship in Atlanta, New York City, Australia, Europe, Brother Mania, South Africa, and Britain, World Changers Church International is one of the largest and fastest-growing churches in the nation. Led by Pastor Creflo A. Dollar, a flamboyant African-American preacher, WCCI has some 25,000 members and an annual budget of more than $70 million.

( Edited to remove ad script)

His message, known as "prosperity gospel," implores followers to enrich themselves in every way, spiritually and financially, through the teachings of his church. Indeed, Pastor Dollar, whom critics have dubbed Pass The Dollar and Cashflow Dollar for his ostentatious displays of wealth, is not shy about his success. He owns two Roll-Royces and flies the country in a Gulfstream-3 private jet.

Fellow Atlanta ministers, schooled in the humble tradition of Reverend Martin Luther King, have criticized the 43-year-old Dollar for putting money before ministry. WCCI members can tithe online by setting up automatic account withdrawals managed by the church.

But Dollar's message is resonating with many evangelicals, especially poor blacks drawn to the idea of pulling themselves out of poverty because the Bible willed it so. A new church in rented space in New York's Madison Square Garden has drawn 5,000 members in the last three months. WCCI is adding between 2,000 and 3,000 members per year. It will soon launch a Spanish-language church led by a Mexican priest, targeted at Atlanta's booming Hispanic immigrant population.

BusinessWeek correspondent Brian Grow sat down with Dollar in his Atlanta offices to find out what "prosperity gospel" means and how seeking wealth is part of the holy bargain.

Q: How did you decide that prosperity gospel was your calling?
A:
I grew up poor. I came from the ghetto of College Park [a suburb on the south side of Atlanta]. When I became a born-again Christian, the Bible appeared to be the book that addressed every other problem. It addressed the problem of depression, marriage, family, character, integrity. I figured there has to be something in here about how to conduct yourself where money is concerned.

We teach people what the Bible has to say about the spirit, family, marriage. But now we have found all of these scriptures where the Bible talks about finances. The Bible talks more about money than it talks about heaven. I really believe with all my heart that it was my calling in life to teach people about total life prosperity -- including money.

I began to teach people on welfare and in ghettos. We have a mentoring program where we put people in low income areas, and they literally walk people out of their situation by changing the way they think. If you can change the way a man thinks, you can change a man.

If he is thinking according to the Word, then he will begin to prosper. We teach the Biblical principles of prosperity. Some of these people now own their own business, are making six-figure salaries.

Q: How do you measure the success of the Church?
A:
Success is when you can accomplish the will of God for your life. If you're not doing what God called you to do but you've gained a lot of material things, that's not necessarily successful.

Q: Describe your faith-management philosophy.
A:
You should have people who are professional, able, and faithful. We don't like to see things like the Little House on the Prairie Church where the preacher shows up and preaches a sermon, but when problems come up, all we want to do is pray for people. People are not just looking for a handout, but a hand-up.

Q: Is there any one segment that you have identified as key potential members to target?
A:
Middle-aged black women. At the same time, as a predominantly black ministry, when we go on the road, we see a high incidence of whites in our ministry, too. We're getting ready to start a Spanish church, too. It has 60 members and will be led by a preacher from Mexico.

We interpret in Portuguese and French and Spanish on Sunday. We're going from being a predominantly black church to having more whites and ethnic groups.

Q: What's the racial breakdown?
A:
It's probably 80% blacks and 5% to 6% whites, with the rest from other ethnic groups. Maybe at one point our society felt it wasn't comfortable or couldn't learn anything from a black man. I think maybe that is changing.

Q: What were revenues for the church in 2004?
A:
They were a little more than $70 million.

Q: How much of the $70 million goes back to members in a year?
A:
Most of it does. It takes money to pay staff, have services, to provide the 60 ministries that we have. Thirty million dollars goes into television each year. It takes money to impact lives.

Every year, we pay $57,000 to have this church audited by the largest audit firm around -- Grant Thornton. We give our members the opportunity to come to the accounting department to look at the books. If you're going to ask people to trust you, then you're going to have to do things that will make it easy for them to trust you.

Q: Catholic priests and other ministers have taken vows of poverty or vowed to live meekly. There is a model of your G3 jet in your office. Why are you so open about taking advantage of the wealth this church has given you?
A:
Because the Bible says so. It's amazing the number of people who say they read the Bible, and I think, "What are you reading?" The Bible makes it so very clear: Preach the Gospel to the poor. What's the Gospel to the poor? You don't have to be poor anymore!

The Bible says in Psalms 35 and 37 that God takes pleasure in the prosperity of his servants. Poverty is a curse. We have tried to equate humility and poverty, but it's just not sound. It's a curse. Jesus came to set us free from the curse of the law. Sin, death, sickness, and poverty are parts of that curse.

One of the things that I want to do is make sure that I am practicing what I preach. It is so important. My church gave me a Rolls-Royce. I would never spend that much money on a Rolls-Royce for several reasons.

But when your church congregation -- 20,000 at that time -- come to you and say, "Pastor, we want you to drive the best," I'm not going to turn that down. It would be a dishonor to the people that gave it to me.




Edited by victoriafleur
Back to Top
mondo View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: Feb 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 4:52pm
Wow. I am in the wrong business.
Back to Top
yourleoqueen View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: Aug 10 2004
Location: My happy place.
Status: Offline
Points: 38217
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 5:04pm

Forget Crack, religion is the best money maker, and it's legal.

Sad, but true, and part of the reason why I don't go to church. And before the Bible toters start to attack, let me just say I BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS! I just don't think I need to be in a group to worship or pray to Him.

People are willing to throw you their life savings if they think you can save their soul. Jesus will do it for free, and all your have to do is askHim to.

GREAT POST VICKY!

 

Back to Top
blckberi2005 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Feb 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2826
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 5:18pm

Funny you posted this... because right now we are taking our "pastor" to court. Major misappropriation of funds. Check this out.. .How about we received our Quarterly Report after service - the first report in about 3 years. Well between Jan and April 2005 our church received $350,000. That is in THREE MONTHS!  How about our final balance is -$1050.  How about that!!!!  Somebody is screwing with the money for real.

Our "pastor" earned $35,000 between Jan and Apr in love offerings plus a housing allowance, car allowance (for a Mercedes and Yukon), utlities allowance, and travel and entertainment. On top of that he is never in service because he is traveling the country preaching and making money for himself. He hasn't been to first Sunday communion in nearly 3 months. Every week he is out of town. It is a nasty mess.

Back to Top
blckberi2005 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Feb 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2826
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 5:21pm
Oh!  Did I mention that we owe the IRS thousands of dollars as taxes have not been paid, a limo was purchased but noone knows where it is, and several other things. Our "pastor" has called us a bunch of broke nickas and told us to kiss his butt several times from the pulpit.   We want him to leave!
Back to Top
mondo View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: Feb 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by blckberi2005 blckberi2005 wrote:

Oh!  Did I mention that we owe the IRS thousands of dollars as taxes have not been paid, a limo was purchased but noone knows where it is, and several other things. Our "pastor" has called us a bunch of broke nickas and told us to kiss his butt several times from the pulpit.   We want him to leave!


Why is your church required to pay taxes? Unless it is involved in a big no-no like politcal lobbying, it should be exempt. copy and paste this - for some reason it isn't working as a link:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf#search='church%20 tax%20exemption%20irs'

Back to Top
blckberi2005 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: Feb 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2826
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 10:22pm
Employment taxes. They had so many staff members and when you run a business and hire employees there are taxes associated.
Back to Top
Sunwell
China Lace Wigs
Get Healthier Stronger Longer Hair
Netwurks Xcel21
Human Hair Wigs
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down