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Is Atheism a religion?

 
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SensitiveSwag View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SensitiveSwag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by PeacefulOne PeacefulOne wrote:

No, imo athesism in NOT a religion. 

re·li·gion/riˈlijən/

Noun:
  1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
  2. Details of belief as taught or discussed.


 
 
a·the·ist  (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
 
 
 
 
 


This is what I got when I looked up the definition of religion.

re·li·gion

[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religious - religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

From what I read, I always assumed religion was a set of beliefs on how one views the world but also how those values in one's belief also paves the way in how one views his/her morals.

Buddhism is considered a religion but instead of believing in a God, they believe in a way of life or as we say a cast system built upon by reincarnation.

I still don't understand how religion can only be identified as having dogma attached to it because not all religions believe in a God. Some believe in several Gods and Goddesses, idols, the non-existence of a God but it's still categorized under a religion or way of life. The only way to not have a religion is to not analyze the non-existence of a God using scientific evidence nor to care because this leaves you to have the knowledge that you do not know whether or not God exist.

By you saying that you are 100% sure that God does not exist, you identify yourself into a religious category but for you to neither confirm nor deny the existence of God, you are non-religious.

When you speak to a believer and you try to persuade him/her out of their belief system of God, you are enforcing your belief or religion of the non-existence of a God upon them. Now if you choose not to care to enforce it because you, yourself do not know, you are non-religious.

Am I right or wrong? Wink


Edited by SensitiveSwag - Nov 02 2012 at 7:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SensitiveSwag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I don't believe in unicorns, dragons, ghosts or monsters either <------ not religions IMO.

Others may call it a religion but speaking strictly for myself (a non-theist) I don't consider atheism a religion.  Non-believer is the term I find most inaccurate.   I believe in many, many things.   There are just things I am pretty certain do not exist.  I'm pretty certain there are no gods. 

We do try our best to put everything under a category though don't weLOL.  Its like team werewolf vs. team vampire.  Those don't exist either but I'm team vampire all day!


There's no moral value, code of ethics, way of life to unicorns, dragons, ghosts, monsters, werewolves or vampires but if you believe that they do truly exist and you have faith in this carrying you throughout the day, it can be a religion of it's own.

Team Moors created White people in labs and America was named after the Moors (A-Moor-rica) and not Amerigo Vespucci while the Olmecs were the first African settlers to discover America before the "Natives". Big smile


Edited by SensitiveSwag - Nov 02 2012 at 7:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2012 at 9:30am
Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:

Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I don't believe in unicorns, dragons, ghosts or monsters either <------ not religions IMO.

Others may call it a religion but speaking strictly for myself (a non-theist) I don't consider atheism a religion.  Non-believer is the term I find most inaccurate.   I believe in many, many things.   There are just things I am pretty certain do not exist.  I'm pretty certain there are no gods. 

We do try our best to put everything under a category though don't weLOL.  Its like team werewolf vs. team vampire.  Those don't exist either but I'm team vampire all day!


There's no moral value, code of ethics, way of life to unicorns, dragons, ghosts, monsters, werewolves or vampires but if you believe that they do truly exist and you have faith in this carrying you throughout the day, it can be a religion of it's own.

Team Moors created White people in labs and America was named after the Moors (A-Moor-rica) and not Amerigo Vespucci while the Olmecs were the first African settlers to discover America before the "Natives". Big smile


I completely agree and this is exactly the point, atheism doesn't have those things either.  Its a simple question of believing in gods vs not believing in gods. 

The second part of your response is just um....IDK what in the world you're talking aboutLOL.  If you're referring to Yakub the mad scientist I think it is a hilarious story but a myth no different than women being created from somebody's rib. 

Anyway I think I answered the question in the OP.  No. 
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The number of gods associated with a religion have zero bearing IMO because Polytheism is the foundation of Monotheism.  Before all of the gods were condensed into one there were always many.  Somehow we tend to believe that monotheism is the original norm when polytheism dominated the earth far longer until being crushed by religious zealots who wanted ONE god, their god, to be the standard. 

Religions that don't believe in deities or have no spiritual aspects can literally be counted on one hand and are by no means prolific in modern society.  Even Satanists acknowledge the existence of deities and spirits.

Anyway if you believe that me not believing in deities or spirits or demons or inferior races or witches or vampires or ghosts or Greek myths or Aesop fables or fairylands or unicorns is a religion that is actually okay with with me. 

If you believe that I am enforcing those non-beliefs on you you're wrong. I would only do that because I would have a genuine concern about your mental stability if you REALLY believed in those non-existent things and that could actually hurt you in the life you are living here and now.  If didn't birth you or marry you, I'm not that pressed to convince you that you might be delusional.

I am the type of anti-theist who doesn't really care what others believe as long as they don't use those beliefs to take away people's rights, kill people or bother me with foolishness.  If that is a religion then I am indeed religiousBig smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SensitiveSwag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2012 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:

Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

I don't believe in unicorns, dragons, ghosts or monsters either <------ not religions IMO.

Others may call it a religion but speaking strictly for myself (a non-theist) I don't consider atheism a religion.  Non-believer is the term I find most inaccurate.   I believe in many, many things.   There are just things I am pretty certain do not exist.  I'm pretty certain there are no gods. 

We do try our best to put everything under a category though don't weLOL.  Its like team werewolf vs. team vampire.  Those don't exist either but I'm team vampire all day!


There's no moral value, code of ethics, way of life to unicorns, dragons, ghosts, monsters, werewolves or vampires but if you believe that they do truly exist and you have faith in this carrying you throughout the day, it can be a religion of it's own.

Team Moors created White people in labs and America was named after the Moors (A-Moor-rica) and not Amerigo Vespucci while the Olmecs were the first African settlers to discover America before the "Natives". Big smile


I completely agree and this is exactly the point, atheism doesn't have those things either.  Its a simple question of believing in gods vs not believing in gods. 

The second part of your response is just um....IDK what in the world you're talking aboutLOL.  If you're referring to Yakub the mad scientist I think it is a hilarious story but a myth no different than women being created from somebody's rib. 

Anyway I think I answered the question in the OP.  No. 


But not every religious person believes in a God. I know monks don't.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SensitiveSwag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2012 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by kfoxx1998 kfoxx1998 wrote:

The number of gods associated with a religion have zero bearing IMO because Polytheism is the foundation of Monotheism.  Before all of the gods were condensed into one there were always many.  Somehow we tend to believe that monotheism is the original norm when polytheism dominated the earth far longer until being crushed by religious zealots who wanted ONE god, their god, to be the standard. 

Religions that don't believe in deities or have no spiritual aspects can literally be counted on one hand and are by no means prolific in modern society.  Even Satanists acknowledge the existence of deities and spirits.

Anyway if you believe that me not believing in deities or spirits or demons or inferior races or witches or vampires or ghosts or Greek myths or Aesop fables or fairylands or unicorns is a religion that is actually okay with with me. 

If you believe that I am enforcing those non-beliefs on you you're wrong. I would only do that because I would have a genuine concern about your mental stability if you REALLY believed in those non-existent things and that could actually hurt you in the life you are living here and now.  If didn't birth you or marry you, I'm not that pressed to convince you that you might be delusional.

I'm confused by this statement because you said that you're not enforcing those non-beliefs while criticizing that one that believes in a God is delusional or that you question their "mental stability".

Isn't that a double standard as to saying that you won't press someone with scientific knowledge that a God doesn't exist but you are calling them dumb for believing in a God?


I am the type of anti-theist who doesn't really care what others believe as long as they don't use those beliefs to take away people's rights, kill people or bother me with foolishness.  If that is a religion then I am indeed religiousBig smile

According to America, the first amendment constitutes freedom of speech and religion. The government doesn't institute for anyone to believe in a religion but that everyone has the freedom to pick and choose what they want to say. So I feel like if you believe in a God, talk about him, don't hide it because someone doesn't believe in your view.

On the other hand, I don't believe that the government should coward behind religion to prohibit gay marriage because it his hypocritical towards the first amendment and it only segregates those religions that don't accept homosexual marriage from those that do. There are religions or lifestyles where the LGBT community is accepted and that diversity shouldn't be taken away in the name of say one religion like "Christianity" because not everyone in America is Christian. How I view God on my life doesn't mean I should deprive anyone from what they want to do with their lives.

I hate politics so I don't know all the amendments by heart but according to the amendments on marriage:

(1) a law prohibiting a mentally retarded adult from marrying, (2) a law prohibiting first cousins from marrying, (3) a law prohibiting a brother from marrying his sister, (4) a law prohibiting polygamy,  (5) a law prohibiting persons of certain incompatible blood types (predisposing offspring to defects or disease) from marrying, and (6) a law prohibiting minors from marrying without the consent of parents or guardians.


But it doesn't mention gay marriage, the U.S. is just discriminating and once again these popes and pastors want to stick their heads in like they did against African-Americans although the bible doesn't state to go around enslaving negroes in God's name
.

As far as the corruption of religion, that's in all religions. I don't judge my religion based on that cause there's stories in the bible about that already.






Edited by SensitiveSwag - Nov 05 2012 at 9:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigheddz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 06 2012 at 5:29am
Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:

Originally posted by bigheddz bigheddz wrote:

Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:

Let's discuss this..

Would religion be defined as the belief in an idea whether it be a deity or a concept?

If so does that define atheism as a religion itself?

For one to assume that there is no God would that mean that that assumption ='s a faith that there is no God but in the science behind it?


 
religion would be better defined as a belief with dogma or philosophy toward an idea, place or thing. theism, or simply acknowledging the existence of a god is not religious. Not acknowledging the existence of a god isn't religious either. however once you add dogma and some sort philosophy behind it then you have theistic religions and non-theistic religions, respectively. Also faith should not be considered a prerequisite to religion nor synonymous.


My head hurts trying to dissect your concept. I guess your saying that one that has a religion in God has a belief in something with dogma attached to it to segregate the belief in a God itself as an entity of it's own but that still would put it under a religion. However not acknowledging God but also discrediting it with man's view on it being non-existent would mean you've put your belief in that man's knowledge which can also be defined as faith or assumption in that.

Unless you were there in the advent of time itself to see it exist as there not being a God hence being the first man not believing in a God wouldn't that make you have faith in something with that being a religion itself called atheism?
 

 

I think the issue is defining religion and using it the same way one would use the word faith. Religion is separate from the person, it is a system. Faith is not separate from the person, it is a feeling. Having faith is putting your trust in something. People often put their faith in religion. However people put their faith in many other things, other people(their leaders, parents, etc) in their own abilities in sports, business, etc.  Faith is what gives religion its power; it generally gives anything it touches power.

 

I would not consider acknowledging the existence of a god religious. I would say putting your faith in said god would definitely make that a candidate for religion, but not simply putting your faith in the “idea” of a god. Theism and Atheism alone deal with the idea of a god, rather than a particular one.

 

To reply to the topic directly when Atheists write books about not believing in a god, having rallies, advertising(literally spreading the word and dedicated web sites), creating Atheist groups/organizations and developing what seems to be a movement then at the point it has become conceptually the same as a religion. All of these things are happening, and they seem to have strong convictions. one of the signs of a religious atheist or a dedicated Atheist is when said person consistently participates in topics of religion.

 

In conclusion, I will say that many atheists can be considered religious, but not all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 06 2012 at 8:59am
Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:


If you believe that I am enforcing those non-beliefs on you you're wrong. I would only do that because I would have a genuine concern about your mental stability if you REALLY believed in those non-existent things and that could actually hurt you in the life you are living here and now.  If didn't birth you or marry you, I'm not that pressed to convince you that you might be delusional.

I'm confused by this statement because you said that you're not enforcing those non-beliefs while criticizing that one that believes in a God is delusional or that you question their "mental stability".

Isn't that a double standard as to saying that you won't press someone with scientific knowledge that a God doesn't exist but you are calling them dumb for believing in a God?



Disagreement does not always equal criticism.  I don't think this is a double standard and I'm not calling anyone dumb.  Why do religious people get so offended by the opinion that believing in gods is delusional?  That is what I believe but you are free to prove to me that I'm wrong.   IMO it meets the definition.

Definition of DELUSION

a : something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated

b : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs

I am willing to use another word if delusional is too hurtful but the thing is people will be offended no matter how I say itHug

If I said Mos Def was extremely talented and you believed with all your heart that he is the worst rapper / actor of all time would I be forcing you to believe something or stating my opinion / view.  This argument you're making about enforcing views ONLY seems to apply to religion and politics (which I believe are the same thing by the way) and only when someone disagrees. 

Originally posted by SensitiveSwag SensitiveSwag wrote:


But not every religious person believes in a God. I know monks don't.


Only referring to atheism with my response, not religion.  ATHEISM is the lack of belief in deities period.  Again, this is MY answer to your question in the OP.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kfoxx1998 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 06 2012 at 9:20am
Originally posted by bigheddz bigheddz wrote:


To reply to the topic directly when Atheists write books about not believing in a god, having rallies, advertising(literally spreading the word and dedicated web sites), creating Atheist groups/organizations and developing what seems to be a movement then at the point it has become conceptually the same as a religion. All of these things are happening, and they seem to have strong convictions. one of the signs of a religious atheist or a dedicated Atheist is when said person consistently participates in topics of religion.

 

In conclusion, I will say that many atheists can be considered religious, but not all.



I was completely with you until the bolded.   This statement could be applied to any group of like minded people who come together to share ideas and possibly bring about reforms, etc.  Are these religious organizations?:

- Civil Rights Movement
- Gary Rights Movement
- Mothers against Drunk Driving
- KKK
- Democrats
- Republicans
- National Teachers Association

Its not that I disagree with the idea of what you're saying I just find it to be an inaccurate way to move atheism into the category of religion.  TO ME, it makes more sense to move religion under the category of an organization with a purpose like all of the above.  

Or better still call religion what it is and I think you (bigheddz) described it perfectly.  Religion is about moving with a faith in higher beings.  There is no need to retrofit those who disagree or do not carry that faith in gods or spirits into the category of religion. 

I also think that being very interested in religion doesn't necessarily make one religious either.  Personally I find religion to be one of the most fascinating topics in the human experience.  My interest is in ALL religions going back to the original religion which is believed to be Zoroastrianism.  I am just as interested in history and social science but we don't have sections for thatConfused.

I think this is a great topic by the way OPThumbs Up








Edited by kfoxx1998 - Nov 06 2012 at 9:20am
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Thanks Big smile
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