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Does long term use of silicones cause balding?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 11:44am
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

You say this as a scientist, a cosmetologist or as one of those other type of "experts" I mentioned above?  I love how people with NO QUALIFICATIONS whatsoever speak with such authority.

I am a cosmetologist. We used silicone containing conditioners on all clients for decades at many salons and no one's hair was damaged. Quite the contrary. As I said, you can not reason with fearmongerers. They fabricate tales of doom and gloom based on non proven hypothesis and spread them with great authority based on  NO STUDIES, NO STATISTICS, NO QUALIFICATIONS WHATSOEVER,just based on SPECULATION.

You are disputing me, a cosmetologist with decades of experience in the field and you are disputing the scientists quoted above who have tested hair products for 50 years between them .LOL
Anyways, the only ones really qualified to speak on this have stated:
"The Beauty Brains bottom line

Silicones are good moisturizers for hair and skin and are commonly used in many, many products. We’ve never seen any data that shows they dry out or damage hair.

http://thebeautybrains.com/2010/05/02/will-silicones-dry-out-hair/"


They are actually scientists with degrees.  You are a spreading pseudo "science" based on nothing except your own inflated ego.



If you read what I wrote it doesn't dispute many of the quotes you made. In fact have of those quotes can be used to defend what i am saying. You are acting like i am directly disputing all the studies, but everything I'm saying is in line with them, I am elaborating on them with additional reasonable evidence.

You even said earlier, try it out and do what's best for your hair. Many find silicones to build up on their hair. It isn't arrogant to notice this and put to and two together since it makes logical sense. Hair does not behave randomly. If your hair behaves a certain way, there is a reason for it.  It isn't arrogant to encourage someone to look at their ingredients and research them, and to take into account their hair's porosity and type. You may say all cones can't be bad, but all cones aren't necessarily good either. Whether they are actively bad depends directly on your hair type, most importantly, porosity but other factors like thickness, curl texture, and curl size are also relevant.
 
"While there are two categories of silicones, one type is not better than the other because silicones do not actually benefit the hair in any way.   In fact, silicones only give the “appearance” of healthier hair.   Silicones coat the hair to make it appear sleeker, frizz free and healthier. "
http://blackhairmedia.com/hair-care/silicones-in-hair-products-good-or-bad/

And depending on your hair type, they can be bad.
Even the quote says it's
up to you to experiment and find what is best for your hair. It isn't fear mongering, the information is there and needs to be addressed so that people who do not understand why these products don't work for them, have actual reasoning as to why.

 This helps people identify and fix mistakes they are making in their regimen, and further increase their hair's health and manageability. I find it childish to just graze over all the points I made and call it fear mongering. If anything you are trying to monger fear of using bakingsoda and acv using false facts that don't apply to what I am saying. Where as every thing I have said is actually true and has logical reasoning behind it that I can back up and will back up below.

What i am doing is explaining that if silicones do not work for you, this is the reason why. If silicones do work for you, this is the reason why. How is that fear mongering? Low porosity hair is more inclined to dry out from protein in products. Dryness causes brittle hair. Is that fear mongering? To point out the obvious from my experience? From many other people's experience? From scientific evidence that support my claims? I'm not qualified to talk about what I've experienced and observed and spent time to research on an open forum?

What you are doing is ignoring evidence that shows silicones do build up on the hair, viewing silicones as some kind of holy grail, and if someone has a problem with silicones it's all boloney. Their experience is baloney because since you haven't experienced it it doesn't exist. How arrogant of you. What exactly did I say that came off as fear mongering? We are basically saying the same thing on one level, find out whats right for you. The only difference is, you are saying that if a product doesn't work, it's the luck of the draw, I am saying it isn't random and the reason why has a lot to do with porosity, which is a reasonable conclusion to draw based on scientific evidence. But I guess I'm egotistical for not agreeing you, and your interpretation of evidence, when I have evidence to back my claims up, first hand and observed experience, and am using logical reasoning.
Below is a quote from your own expert source:


"Diane, you raise some very good questions. In general, silicones work by covering hair with a thin hydrophobic (water-proof) coating. This coating serves several purposes: it helps reduce the porosity of the hair which makes it less likely to absorb humidity; it helps reduce moisture loss from the inside of the hair; and it lubricates the surface of the hair so it feel smoother and combs easier."

It coats the cuticle! It is a water proof coating, therefore it blocks a significant amount of water from entering the cuticle. Reduces the porosity of your hair! So if your hair is low porosity already, wouldn't that be more unbeneficial? Is hair porosity another fabrication of my mind? The porosity and type of your hair doesn't make a substantial difference in the way your hair responds to products that behave this way? It does and that has already been proven, testified, etc.  that's not cultist thinking, that's logical reasoning.


btw these studies that prove "unequivocally" that silicones couldn't possibly ever dry out out the hair, what types of hair are these studies being done on? White, caucasian hair? High porosity hair? Are they actually even being done on natural, low porosity, type 4 hair that you can speak with such unequivocation when it comes to hair products? People can testify silicones to dry out the hair, myself included.


"The properties vary depending on which particular silicone is in the formula. Some silicones do leave a heavy coating on the hair that can be hard to wash off. Others are very water soluble and don’t buildup at all. Dimethicone, (sometimes called simethicone) for example, is the heaviest of all silicones used for hair care. It provides the most smoothing effect but it is also the hardest to wash out. "

Ingredients to Hello Hydration Conditioner:
Water , Stearyl Alcohol , Behentrimonium Chloride , Cetyl Alcohol , Bis Aminopropyl Dimethicone , Zea Mays (Corn) Silk Extract , Orchis Mascula Flower Extract , Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Extract , Fragrance , Benzyl Alcohol , Disodium EDTA , Sodium Hydroxide , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone , Blue 1


Is it fear mongering to point out the obvious? I do not believe in fear mongering, but I also don't believe in sugar coating something that can be taking away from your hair's health. If she happens to have higher porosity hair, it won't negatively effect her, I said that. But if her hair is lower porosity these products need to be avoided. She can experiment all she want to make an informed decision, that highlights both the negative and positive aspect of silicones for different types of hair and why, so she knows why it does or doesn't work for her hair. An unwater soluable silicone is in the first 5 ingredients of her conditioner. It's a fact that that type of silicone can only be thoroughly removed by a sulfate, it isn't water soluable.
Here's a quote from curl chemist:


http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-amodimethicone-and-other-amine-functionalized-silicones

"These modified silicones seem to be of particular benefit for those of us with damaged hair, permanently colored hair or those concerned about the buildup of conditioning agents. It would be necessary to use a shampoo containing one of the lauryl or laureth sulfates or cocamidopropyl betaine to completely remove this silicone from the hair, which may be of concern to those who prefer to use only conditioner-cleansing methods."

Damaged, or high porosity hair. Low porosity's will not benefit from the use of silicones!

In regards to the woman who experienced balding from silicones. If it builds up on your scalp, it can even clog the hair folicle and cause hair loss. This is probably what happened to the woman who experienced balding. Now her situation is unique, but no where near impossible. It all depends on the fragility of her hair. What is the hair type? The thickness? The porosity? We don't know what kind of silicones she was using, and they could've very well been the heavier one needed to avoid.

http://swfl.naturalawakeningsmag.com/SWFL/May-2012/Best-Tressed-Help-for-Hair/
"Stylists such as Julie Chandler, owner of Salon Shangri-la, in Bonita Springs, look for the root cause, starting with hair care products that women use. “The majority of commercial products contain synthetic silicones, which are inexpensive ingredients that coat the hair to give it a smooth, healthy feeling,” she explains. “Unfortunately, the synthetic silicone builds up on the scalp and clogs the hair follicle, causing it to die and the hair to fall out.”

http://www.pinksith.com/2013/05/silicones-in-hair-care-what-you-need-to.html
"You know how I talked about long term use causing damage to some types of hair, well this is where I explain why.  Non-soluble silicones require the help of sulfate shampoos and cleansers in order to remove the silicone coating from the hair.   This may seem meaningless to some, however if you are trying to retain moisture in your hair then you may want to refrain from using non-soluble silicone products.  Why?  Well, in addition from having to use drying sulfate based cleansers, the silicone coating on the hair prevents moisture, protein, or other products from penetrating the hair shaft.   Additionally, when an overload of silicone products are applied to hair, the buildup from the silicone coating eventually causes breakage.  (If your hair is already dry or prone to breakage)"
 
People can get silicone overload the same way they can get protein overload. No, not everyone's hair does this, but it all relies on identifiable aspects of the individual's hair, and even scalp condition.

Cowashing would never be enough to remove the unwater soluable silicones, and they cling to the hair. Especially if your cowash has silicones in it.

Is that psuedo science? It's in your OWN quote.


"Cowash will not be enough and the silicone may start to build up and weigh down your hair.

http://thebeautybrains.com/2010/01/27/will-silicone-build-up-on-my-hair/"

Lady aradia"(weighing down is more a problem amongst Caucasians than African Americans who may welcome elongation time)"

Why do you think the elogation happens? Because of build up. A combination of blocking moisture to prevent hair from shrinking and weight of build up on the hair. Hang time doesn't always equate to hair health. moisture retention is different from weighing down due to build up. In african american hair a lot of the time dehydrated elongation look is also met with frizz and dryness as a side effect. To get the hair to stretch, moisture needs to be lacking. They say it right there, silicones can build up and weigh hair down. Build up blocks moisture from entering the hair cuticle. You agree that silicones weigh down the hair and that is the reason why they do.

 I see your cosmotogoist mindset pretty clear. Majority of cosmotologists have been trained to deal with straight hair, they aren't experts on curly hair. This has only been a recent thing, and even then they still make mistakes. There's many the testimony when it comes to that. Laurraine Massie is a curly hair expert. You believe in the more relaxed mindset of hangtime, use of heavy products, silicones, that build up on the hair for a more weighed down look and cuticle blockage. These practices are more ideal for higher porosity hair types and relaxed hair.  But those practices do not make the hair more moisturized, which curly hair desperately needs in order to appear healthy and be healthy. You seemed to be undermining the importance of moisture and are focused on oils and loosening of the curl.

Lady Aradia: "If silicones or oils prevented all moisture absorption, hair that was flat ironed with silicone would never revert when you cleanse it."


Silicones can build up on the hair. No matter if they are permeable or not, they still can build up, and they still block out enough moisture to be said to "lower the porosity of your hair" and be called "water proof". Says it in your own credible quote. If allowed to build up, your curl pattern can become weighed down, limper and frizzier, and less defined. Your sensitivity to this build up and how it effects your hair depends greatly on your hair's porosity and curl type, which is what I was emphasizing.

Also, the use of silicones and then flat ironing can actually cause silicone damage.

A quote from Scott Cornwall, hair expert:


http://scottcornwall.blogspot.com/2012/08/clarifying-hair-and-silicone-damage.html


"What is Silicone Damage?

If you use heated styling products such as hot irons you can seal this build up onto the hair, gluing down the cuticle layer, trapping in the silicone and making it difficult to remove."

"In some instances a straightening iron can reach such a high temperature that the silicone molecule actually reaches boiling point and melts onto the hair shaft." (the melting would only happen if the heat was too high.)

Lady Aradia:
 "Hair DOES revert when you cleanse it even if you use silicones or oils for years and never use sulfates to cleanse it.

You cannot properly cleanse unwater soluable silicones with out the use of sulfates, unless you hair is highly poros, than it which case it likes the extra build up.

Lady Aradia: "Now silicones and oils DO help to slow down the reverting and puffiness when you go out in humidity but they do not block out all water or moisture."


Why do they slow down the reverting process? because at some level they block moisture from getting in, they make it increasingly difficult to moisturize you hair the more it builds up.
You are even contradicting your self in several places,
in this sense.


Lady Aradia:"Hair dryness is more an issue of lack of lipids or natural fatty, moist substances in the strand.  This is addressed in one of the articles below. So water or hydration alone is not going to make your hair feel less dry. In fact as the hair dries from water alone, it will take with it a lot of natural oils also evaporating from the strand leaving the hair DRYER."

I never said anything to combat this. But sealing in with a silicone conditioner or oil alone wouldn't be enough to hold water on the hair. Water is what actually moisturizes the hair. If you only used oils either, your hair would not be moisturized. Oils are lubricants and sealants. They alone do not moisturize the hair, period. And once unwater soluable silicones have sealed your hair you can not remove it with out stripping those natural oils you are speaking of. If you don't cleanse it, you will have problems re-introducing moisture into the hair. What was meant to seal in moisture now serves to block it from properly penetrating. Gel is the best agent for sealing in moisture, as long as it doesn't contain products that are difficult to cleanse and build up.

 
Lady Aradia: "Furthermore, adding drying agents like vinegar and baking soda will eat out even more of the few lipids (fats) the strands have and leave the hair dryer. It may feel softer when it is wet because you have dissolved some of the keratin similar to the way a relaxer dissolves some of the keratin and cuticle. This is why some naturals notice a smoother curl pattern after baking soda.They've swollen the strands as much as a relaxer with the baking soda which causes destruction of some of the disulfide bonds that form kinks and curl patterns."


Baking soda and apple cider vinegar do not dissolve the hair cuticle or hair protein. that is a 100% FALSE claim, by you, a cosmotologist. That is the most backwards statement I have ever heard, psuedo science from the "expert" who claims to not use it. The only thing they do is change the ph. Baking soda is no where near the ph of a relaxer. THAT is baloney. And this proves it, with real, truthful science.

 http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/11/myth-or-fact-baking-soda-relaxer.html


"From my experiment using my baking soda (Sainsbury's brand if you are interested), there was no 'relaxing' of the curl.

I think it matters that the baking soda I used had some corn starch in it (all the ones on the shelf did too). Its pH was 7-8 (as measured by me). Some people report that pure baking soda should have a pH of 9. Relaxers have a pH of 10-12. I do think people should know that the pH of the relaxer is important towards relaxing hair but more important is the ability to break the bonds of the hair. In short, I do not think that baking soda can break bonds.

I think much like the coconut lime relaxer, some people are confusing moisturised hair with relaxed hair. "


Lady Aradia: "This is the same thing that relaxers do to the hair, swell the strand and cause the disulfide curl bonds to break.. (You've essentially eroded  some of the strand off and zapped out its natural oils. That is why it will feel dryer when it dries after zapping the hair with corrosive vinegar and baking soda.
"

That is a complete confabulation of facts. This is the pseudo science people. She is neither speaking from experience or actual scientific facts, but has now resorted to making up her own facts under the guise of being a cosmetologist. Either that, or you are attempting to twist around what i am saying. White Vinegar is corrosive. It has a ph of 2.4. APPLE CIDER Vinegar falls in around the same ph as the hair does once ph balanced.
Typically the pH of apple cider vinegar is around 4.25 to 4.75, depending on the brand. It is not corrosive. That ph alone can not eat the bonds of the hair. Also, following a rinse I've never had dryer hair, if anything, this method allows you to retain more moisture in the long run, and your hair defines and feels softer even on product free dry hair.

A good conditioner contains many moisturizing agents including some oils that can actually absorb into the hair, since it is water based. The method I've been pitching includes deep conditioning or steming directly after the rinses. And if you are doing a baking soda rinse, that moisture really gets to penetrate the strand, on much higher levels than it would with just regular cowash, or worse a cowash with silicones. THAT is why people notice softer hair. So don't try and twist it around with lies, to get people to agree silicones are for everyone. This method

 http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/the-max-hydration-methodfrom-my-other-post_topic368937.html
works and has already been shown to work. My hair actually has a curl pattern when dry and it feels significantly softer than before. Other People trying out this method are reporting immediate changes. As soon as aketafitgirl and danabnatural started incorporating proper clarifying and moisture retention techniques, that is when their hair became healthier and started to retain moisture.


"Healthy curly hair should have a pH balance of 4.5-5.5 to combat frizz, and add strength and shine."
http://www.frizzoff.com/PHLevels.aspx

Not to mention it is being diluted with water, further raising the ph. Many gentle hair products also fall into this ph as it is better absorbed by the hair that way. If they do not corrode the hair, neither will acv rinse.


ACV is helpful in gently removing build up from gel or heavy oil you are using. (though not strong enough to remove silicones.)



Audrey Davis-Sivasothy, author of hair care rehab and the science of black hair recommend acv rinses, bakingsoda rinses, and bentonite clay treatment in her book.

Baking soda rinses can be drying if you aren't diluting with conditioner and water. It is still gentler that sulfates. 1-1.5 tablespoons of baking soda with a 1/3 cup conditioner, and a few ounces of water in a rinse, especially followed by a steaming or ghe/ Deep condition does not dry out the hair. It simultaneously removes build up from gel and lifts the cuticle, allowing for better absorption of moisturizing agents like conditioner and water. It will, if done correctly, actually make your hair more moisturized, and increase your hair's moisture retention levels. If you have dryness after a rinse and your hair doesn't seem to be taking to moisture, just close your cuticles with a quick acv rinse and your hair will get back to normal. Nothing is permantly changed. The rinse is meant to clarify the hair of build up and product residue. If you were only using oils on your hair instead of gel, you could dilute the mixture further, to 1-2 teaspoons in 1/3 cup of conditioner and a few ounces of water instead. The quantities/concentrations and measurements used play a big role and shouldn't be blindly overgeneralized. That stripping effect isn't going to happen with proper dilution of the mixture. Also, Actual Scientists have already stated ph's up to 4 - 9 do not have a significant effect on the hair. All they do is lift or close the cuticle, due to their ph, which is temporary. Sodium bicarbonate, aka, baking soda has a ph of 8.4. Relaxers have a ph of 10-14. The ingredient that does this is the high levels sodium hydroxide, and/or other hydroxides. That psuedo science? Sounds like real science to me.


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bases-ph-d_402.html


http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chemicals/en/ph.pdf
"In addition, solutions of pH 10–12.5 have been reported to cause hair fibres to swell."

A ph of only 8.4 could never cause the hair fibres to swell.


http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/06/investigation-does-ph-affect-your-hair.html

"There are two authoritative studies on this with pretty similar results. There is very little change to hair structure between the pH ranges of 4 to 9. Hair protein resists changes due to acid or base. Tests were performed using hydrochloric acid (powerful acid) and sodium hydroxide (a strong base)."

" Hair does not absorb noticeable amounts of acid or base between pH 4-10" ( J Soc Cosmet Chem, pp 393-405, 1981)
"The cuticle separation distance is within the same range between pH 4 -9" (J Invest Dermatol 105: pp96-99, 1995)



Those enough studies for you?


Edited by pinkecube - Mar 27 2014 at 8:36pm
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http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html

Relaxer pH starts at 10


"When speaking of baking soda, it's sort of like a double edged sword..One on hand, it has the capability of softening and thoroughly cleansing the hair. This is more of a cosmetic feel. But baking soda, on the other hand is a gritty abrasive material almost like fine sand, which is what makes it an awesome household cleansing tool, and has a very high alkalinic pH of 9, which is like a weak chemical relaxer. While it may make the hair feel good for the moment, viewing hair strands that have had consistent use of baking soda under a microscope, shows scratches and abrasions on the hair cuticle. Due to the high alkalinic pH it increases the amount of hair swelling. This swelling weakens the hair fiber over time. So before we indulge in the Arm and Hammer goodness of clean to our natural tresses to achieve a wonderful squeaky clean, try using a natural clarifying shampoo instead and be sure to follow up with a deep condition..Happy Natty Day!!"



I am tired of this. Do what makes you happy.

PS: The Ancient Egyptians used baking soda and salt (aka NATRON) to mummify corpses. I don't know if you're aiming for hair as dried out as a mummy corpse.... But that is NOT what I am aiming for. ALSO, I advocate use of 1/2 water 1/2 oil with an emulsifying agent (ie creams) NOT ALL OIL. So please don't try to re quote what I said bc you intentionally get it wrong.


Edited by LadyAradia - Mar 27 2014 at 9:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:




http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html

Relaxer pH starts at 10
https://www.facebook.com/AllThingsonatural/posts/416838545008205c
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/low-porosity/126372-baking-soda-low-porosity-hair.html


I am tired of this. Do what makes you happy.


Alright, so you showed an example of a caucasian with straight, possibly high porosity hair. Not only that, but it doesn't contradict anything i say, as they same way i recommend cuticle coating techniques for higher poros hair and not for low poros hair, I recommend bakingsoda treatments for lowporos hair, not high poros hair. I'm pretty sure I said repeatedly in some fashion, hair type is one of the main things that contribute to how and why your hair reacts a certain way to products.

Now the hypocrisy begins. So according to you, silicones which primary function is to coat the hair cuticle, could never be bad for low porosity hair. That is, according to you "pseudo science". You tried to make it seems like I said silicones were harmful for all hairtypes, but I didn't. I mentioned the contrary, several times throughout this post.

But a random woman on the internet with high porosity STRAIGHT hair complains about bakingsoda ruining her hair is correct,
Because you say so. Making overgeneralized, fear mongering statements that no one should ever use it, isn't psuedo science when you say it, even though scientific evidence already said ph of 4-9 doesn't significantly effect the hair shaft. But I guess when you propagate myths, it's okay. Not to mention you are not taking to account her lack dilution of the bakingsoda with conditioner (which is what i have suggested, I never said anything about putting it with just water on the hair.) or her porosity and hair texture-- now those same generalized rules apply to all hair types as well, including low porosity hair.  Even though scientific chemists with PH.Ds show bakingsoda to have a ph of 8.4, and I can find many, many, credible sources (not from random social media posts on the internet, but from "experts" like you previously emphasized. Scientists.)  that directly support that.  Also, if the hair does react that way, the effects are reversible with an acv rinse.

now would be the correct time to say "psuedo science"

http://www.archure.net/salus/ph.html

"8.3 - Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)" By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.
http://chemistry.about.com/od/acidsbases/a/phtable.htm


The first time I did a bakingsoda rinse, I tried it with just diluted with water on hair that only had olive oil in it(which i belive is where the problem lies, and why i don't recommend it used in that way) , my hair adamantly rebelled. I put conditioner on top afterward and my hair just wasn't taking to it, and felt dry. One acv rinse and the problem was solved, my hair felt soft again, and not only that, i had root to tip definition. It cannot permanently damage your hair, you just need to know what to do reclose the cuticle. But diluting with conditioner has given me zero problems, and has actually significanltly improved my hair. Along with that I also deep condition overnight. If I ever notice more dryness after a rinse, i know know it's because I don't have enough product on my hair to need that level of clarifying(this dilution level is to lift the gel and other build up off your hair, not on bare hair), and that tells me to dilute the baking soda futher, using a teaspoon instead of a tablespoon. Also may of the conditioners We used have a low ph. Water has a ph of seven. a neutral ph isn't going to actively change anything. It's the addition and concentrations of higher and lower phs that change the ph of something, hence conditioner.

All these things, porosity, hair type, the way you diluted the product, what you diluted it with(conditioner), How clean your hair is to determine the appropriate ratio. To ignore all these and make generalized statements is pseudo science and overgeneralizing.




Edited by pinkecube - Mar 27 2014 at 9:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DEE80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 7:44pm
@Lady You gave a lot of good information. Wow. I still have my hello hydration conditioner. I never threw it out. I just sat it aside. I never had any issues with it. I'm just co-washing with VO5 tea therapy daily since I'm using a sulfur mix.

The same thing can be said about hair grease. I used hair grease until I was 29 years old and my hair was WL until I chopped it off. It wasn't thin either. So I have to agree that naturals tend to go crazy over the whole silicone, petroleum thing. I got scared because this woman had bald spots because she said she used silicones. I'm going to find the video and post it here.
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Originally posted by DEE80 DEE80 wrote:

@Lady You gave a lot of good information. Wow. I still have my hello hydration conditioner. I never threw it out. I just sat it aside. I never had any issues with it. I'm just co-washing with VO5 tea therapy daily since I'm using a sulfur mix.

The same thing can be said about hair grease. I used hair grease until I was 29 years old and my hair was WL until I chopped it off. It wasn't thin either. So I have to agree that naturals tend to go crazy over the whole silicone, petroleum thing. I got scared because this woman had bald spots because she said she used silicones. I'm going to find the video and post it here.


What is your hair type? A lot of hair has different toleration levels to these things, and it really has to do with hair type and hair porosity. I'm not trying to fear monger. But hair doesn't behave randomly and those are the primary reasons why some people's hair doesn't like certain products and others do. You have to be able to identify certain traits like these in your hair so you can make the connection of compatibility or incompatibility as to why a product does and doesn't work. I have type 4 low porosity hair and my hair hates silicones and grease. It's up to the individual hair type. This is meant to highlight that fact.


Edited by pinkecube - Mar 27 2014 at 8:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 8:17pm
"While there are two categories of silicones, one type is not better than the other because silicones do not actually benefit the hair in any way.   In fact, silicones only give the “appearance” of healthier hair.   Silicones coat the hair to make it appear sleeker, frizz free and healthier. "

http://blackhairmedia.com/hair-care/silicones-in-hair-products-good-or-bad/


Edited by pinkecube - Mar 27 2014 at 8:18pm
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aharri23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote aharri23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by DEE80 DEE80 wrote:

@Lady You gave a lot of good information. Wow. I still have my hello hydration conditioner. I never threw it out. I just sat it aside. I never had any issues with it. I'm just co-washing with VO5 tea therapy daily since I'm using a sulfur mix.

The same thing can be said about hair grease. I used hair grease until I was 29 years old and my hair was WL until I chopped it off. It wasn't thin either. So I have to agree that naturals tend to go crazy over the whole silicone, petroleum thing. I got scared because this woman had bald spots because she said she used silicones. I'm going to find the video and post it here.
Naturals going crazy? I'm not even sure if the whole silicone thing is 100% accurate but why take a chance over a conditioner when theres a silicone free one that does the same thing? I'd rather just get a silicione free conditioner and have a clear mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote exceedinggrace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by LadyAradia LadyAradia wrote:

"But baking soda, on the other hand is a gritty abrasive material almost like fine sand, which is what makes it an awesome household cleansing tool!"


baking soda dissolves tho. it even says so on the box 2 use in shampoo. My hair dsn't feel like mummy, & i've been using it... Pink's right ur fear mongering & making stuff up. She has already proven herside imo, I read everything & didn't see anything untrue there. She's not misquoting u, its a direct quote. In ur post u said baking soda strips oil from the hair, & said oils(lipids r oils) r the real moisture agents. oils don't moisturize hairErmm


Edited by exceedinggrace - Mar 27 2014 at 10:42pm
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OhMyCurlz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote OhMyCurlz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 10:51pm
Silicones will not make your hair fall out. LOL

The silicone protein scare is propaganda spread by natural hair companies as well as those profiting off of the curly hair community (ie Curl Girl book). I know this for a fact.....I owned a natural hair care line and we advertised the same "no-silicones" ploy as a selling point. It's bunk. That's why chemists have no clue where this scare even came from because it's baseless. ...it's also why we can get away with selling a "natural conditioner" to you for $16.99 for 8 oz, where as a product with actives and silicones that will provide the same level of performance and better slip costs much less. 

There is less than stellar "information" about behentrimonium methosulfate and cetearyl alcohol too...but those are the emulsifiers in your "natural conditioner". If used in very high percentages that can also cause "build up" as these are "naturally derived" wax pellets. 

Your hair may not respond well to a formula or the amount of an ingredient used, but to isolate one ingredient in an entire formula as the culprit of why your hair responded badly when it is very low on an ingredient list is a tad ridiculous. Not everyone who is claiming "silicone sensitive" is actually "silicone sensitive" they are just band wagon hoppers. People need to do their own research from a reputable source and use common sense. 

A product made of 99% silicone is different from a product with 0.5% silicone in it. 

Silicones do not form an impenetrable barrier over the hair. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinkecube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 27 2014 at 11:29pm
I had 2 delete this post, since It duplicated when I edited it for some reason. My reply to OhMyCurls is on the next page

Edited by pinkecube - Mar 28 2014 at 6:24am
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