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Yildiz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2006 at 1:41pm
Wow, this post has such a lot of great info! Thanks to all of you!!
Miss Luxurious, I'm no expert on curly perms, but I have been experimenting quite a lot in the last few months, just to find the right kind of curl for me.
I saw you have considered the large rollers, well, I've tried them and the hair turned out a beautiful body wave... but it only lasted until the first washing, after that the waves were barely detectable, so: experiment failed I guess.Geek
Have you thought about using pipe cleaners instead of  loop rods? They've got a "fluffy" surface, so I suppose there won't be problems with hair slipping. I have not tried them yet, but I'm sure I read about them somewhere...  The problem with that method could be, that the pipe cleaners have a metal core that probably won't agree with perms.
Also, I have sucessfully curly permed a lace front of 24''. The pics are in my fotki:  Lydia album  pw: Lydia
You can see in the pics that the curls softened with time and on account of the weight of hair, so my advice would be you use small sized rods with longer hair.

Edited by Yildiz - Sep 05 2006 at 1:42pm
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MissLuxurious View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2007 at 10:34am

Body Wave Perm

Q: I have relatively long hair (almost to my bra line across my back), dark brown, fine but lots of it, and am thinking about getting a VERY LOOSE perm. I just want to get some wave and volume, not curls persay. Is this possible in today's age of perms?
A: Today's age of
perms can certainly give you exactly what you want. What you need is a body wave, which is basically a perm wrapped on large tools (rollers or rods). Given the length and texture of hair you describe, I would recommend a tool that is at least 1-1/2 inches (3.75cm) in diameter. There are spiral-wrap tools available in the sizes suggested that I have seen in shops, but no standard perm rods that size (your stylist would need to use plastic rollers).
      Given the non-standard nature of this body wave procedure, (and the potential need for the stylist to purchase specific tools) the perm may be a little more expensive than normal. I recommend that you go in for a consultation and discuss what options are available and see if you might be able to purchase the necessary tools yourself and save money on the perm. Depending on the salon, the stylist and the area in which you live the costs could become significant (typically you will find a price range of US $40 to $125 or higher). It all depends on the rates the local market will bear, and the salon or stylist's policy on "specialty procedures".
      You can go as large as you wish with the wrapping tools (I've heard of specialty perms being wrapped on empty frozen juice cans), but remember, the larger the tool, the more subtle the wave pattern will be.
      Also, you should note that large-tool perms are not only useful for adding body and light wave, but can be used to reduce the amount of curl in the hair as well. It can take hair that is very curly and hard to manage and reshape the curls into larger, more tamable curls. It all depends on what you are looking for in the service.
      I always recommend going to a salon for chemical services, but if you're intent on performing the service yourself, I recommend you enlist the aid of a friend, because simply wrapping the hair will be more difficult than usual. Also, when using non-standard tools for perming, be sure to use plastic clips to secure the tools in place. Metallic clips can react to both the waving lotion and neutralizer in a perm and can cause discoloration or damage to the hair.
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MissLuxurious View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2007 at 10:53am

How to Wrap a Perm

Wrapping Techniques for a Body Wave

perm%20wrapping%20diagram%201 perm%20wrapping%20diagram%202

perm%20wrapping%20instruction%201        The biggest factor in a successful perm is the perm wrap. How
the hair is wound on the perm rod, the size of the rod, and the
number of rods used all effect the outcome. So, we're going to show
you how to "Wrap a Perm".
       For our demonstration we will be wrapping the hair for a "body
wave". The difference between the standard 'perm' and what is
called a 'body wave' is simply the size of the tools used. The perm
wrapping tools come in many sizes, from the teeny-tiny rods
(usually bright red) to large, thick rods (usually orange or purple in
color), and many steps in between. The smaller the rod is,
obviously, the tighter the curl.
       You need: Hair clips, perm rods, end papers, tail combs, and spray bottle of water.
Step One:
       Shampoo the hair two times with a clarifying shampoo. Do not apply any
conditioner or other product, so as not to hinder the hair's absorption of the waving
lotion. Section the hair on the head into nine sections. The sections should be a little
shorter than the length of the rod you will use. Sectioning the hair makes it easier to
work with as you wrap the perm by keeping the hair not being wrapped out of the way.
Step Two:
perm%20wrapping%20instruction%202        Begin with section one (center crown section, see diagram) and
slice a segment of hair approximately as thick as the rod you are
using. Comb out the section until it is smooth and fold an end
paper over the segment about 1/3 of the distance from the end of
the hair. Lightly mist the folded end paper and hair segment
(allowing the end paper to 'grip' the hair segment) and slide the
end paper down past the ends of the segment.
       The purpose for end papers is to make sure that the ends of
the hair wind smoothly around the rod. Without using them, the
ends of the hair can get folded back onto themselves in the
wrapping process and cause "fish hooks" in the completed perm.
       Wrap the protruding end paper over the rod and turn the rod "under", winding the
hair evenly onto the rod. Keep even, gently tension on the hair as you wind the rod,
and once you reach the scalp, secure the rod as appropriate. (Most rods today have
an elastic tether that extends across the wrapped segment and an end cap that fits
into the opposite end of the rod.)
       Slice another segment below the first and repeat the process.
Step Three:
perm%20wrapping%20instruction%203        Continue with section two (center nape), then sections three
and four (right crown, right nape), five and six (left crown, left nape),
seven (right side), eight (left side), and 9 (top). Wrap the hair
'downward" in each section - toward the neck in the back sections,
toward the ear on the left and right sides, and toward the face on
the top section. If you notice that your perm rods look "crowded",
then your segments are too thin, if you can insert a finger between
the rods, then the segments are too thick.
       Getting the hair wrapped evenly for the perm is important so
that the waving solution processes evenly and you get the optimal
results. The majority of troubles with at-home-perms are a direct result of poor wrapping
techniques. A good wrap ensures even curls and processing.
       Once wrapped, you're ready to follow your package guidelines for your at-home
perm. Enjoy!
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MissLuxurious View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 03 2007 at 10:55am

Let's Talk Perms

From straight to curly, curly to straight, and everywhere in between, millions of people
each year do something to change the texture and wave patterns of their hair. It's big
business. There are many rules to remember, and some myths that need to be
dispelled. So, let's talk about hair and perms.
girl%20with%20curly%20hair Hair 101:
   Your hair is made up of proteins. Each strand has a cortex at the
center. The cortex is made up of proteins in a chain down the length of
the shaft. These proteins (called poly-peptide chains) are held together
by peptide bonds which give the hair its strength.
   Surrounding the cortex is the medulla, again made of protein fibers
and containing the pigment of the hair, giving the hair its color. Here is
where you'll also find the side bonds of the hair, which hold the wave
pattern of the hair. There are three types of side bond: salt bonds,
hydrogen bonds and disulfide bonds. The salt and hydrogen bonds
are weaker than the disulfide bonds, but there are more of them, and overall, each of
the bond types constitute about a third of the strength of the hair's curl. The disulfide
bonds are what get changed in a permanent wave.
   Finally, the cortex and medulla are encased in a protective sheath called the cuticle.
The cuticle is made of tiny, overlapping scales of keratin (the same thing fingernails and
toenails are made from). The cuticle is what protects the hair from damaging effects of
the environment. Some people have hair with a tightly closed cuticle, and some have a
cuticle whose normal state is slightly raised. The arrangement of the hair's cuticle
determines how readily the hair absorbs moisture, and how "frizzy" the hair appears to
Curling The Hair:
   We change the wave pattern of the hair by curling it, usually on rollers of some type.
These changes occur because we alter the side bonds of the hair. The salt and hydrogen
bonds mentioned above are easily broken through the application of water and heat,
which is why simply wetting the hair, wrapping it in rollers, and allowing it to dry - or using
a curling iron - allows you to add curl. When the heat cools and the hair dries, the salt
and hydrogen bonds reform on their own. The curl you get this way only lasts until the
next time the hair is wet. Hot combs and flat irons work on the same principles to relax
curl and straighten the hair.
Perming The Hair:
   The process we call permanent waving uses chemicals to break and reform the stron-
ger disulfide bonds of the hair. When the hair is washed and wrapped on a perm rod
(the rod size used determining the tightness of the curl), we place the hair in the physi-
cal shape we want it to take. Then, by applying a waving lotion with an alkaline base
(ammonium thioglycolate is most commonly used in today's perms), we raise the cuticle
layer and break the disulfide bonds that hold the natural wave pattern.
   After the waving lotion has had time to process and has been rinsed away and the
rods have been blotted to remove excess water, and a neutralizer is applied. The
neutralizer is actually what reforms the disulfide bonds of the hair and sets the new curl
pattern. It is also the most potentially damaging stage of the perming process and
should always be closely monitored.
   Once allowed to take effect, the neutralizer is rinsed away, the rods are removed, and
the hair is re-rinsed for good measure, it can be styled as desired.
Why To Perm:
   Maybe your hair is board straight (or maybe you have really curly hair) and you want
more body and movement (or more manageability). A perm can give you this. A perm
can add volume and thickness to hair. In some cases, it can give the illusion of more
hair. Or maybe, you just want versatility in styling. All of these are valid reasons to perm
the hair. And perming the hair can be a satisfying experience as long as you know how to
properly care for permed hair.
fingers%20holding%20strands%20of%20hair Caring for a Perm & a Perming Myth:
   Myth: Never wash freshly permed hair.
   You'll hear varying advice on how long to wait to shampoo after a perm.
Some stylists suggest you wait 24 hours before shampooing, while others
swear it's at least 3 days. The truth is, it all depends on your hair. To
counter the claim made by the movie "Legally Blonde", you won't 'risk
deactivating the ammonium thioglycolate by getting your hair wet within 48
hours'. The waving lotion has done its job and been thoroughly neutralized
if the process was performed correctly.
However, perming the hair is a strong process, and you have to pay
attention to what your hair tells you. It's never a bad idea to give your hair a break after
a strong process. Remember that the alkaline of the waving lotion has raised the cuticle
of the hair and made it more porous, therefore it will feel drier and rougher, so use a
good conditioner, and a milder shampoo. Acid balancing shampoos and conditioners are
available from many makers, and you can always rely on your salon professional to
suggest something suitable to your hair type.
Perms & Haircolor:
   Also, do bear in mind (especially if your hair is color-treated) that perming the hair
can result in lightening of the color. The most common ingredient in perm neutralizers is
hydrogen peroxide, which is used as a developer for permanent haircolor formulas. With
the cuticle already being raised in the process of waving, the peroxide readily penetrates
the hair and will break up the color, though the peroxide solution is much weaker in the
perm formula than in haircoloring.
   This is also the reason that you want to have your hair permed before coloring it.
Otherwise, you risk fading the
color. As for how long to wait between perming and
coloring, talk to your professional, and ask them when they think your hair is in the right
condition for the subsequent color process.
   Hopefully, this gives you enough information to understand how a perm works and lets
you take better care of your hair. After all, you want to look your best, and beautiful hair
is a major asset.
Stacy McCurdy - Stylist                                                                      ©

Edited by MissLuxurious - Aug 03 2007 at 10:57am
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divasunflower View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 25 2007 at 11:10pm
Can I just say that after going through all nine pages of this topic... I love BHM.  It makes me smile.

Bravo, ladies.

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PerfectBlending View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 19 2007 at 3:37pm
ok so the hair that was curly permed got matted/tangled/! Cry
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augi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 25 2008 at 2:58pm
hey that was a good break down on to do a perm....i have been finding it hard to get someone in china town to do it......

do you by chance know what perms to use on virgin remy hair and where i can get it from....i live in NYC ....THANKS
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MissLuxurious View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 26 2008 at 3:55pm
^^^ I've used Wella, Acclaim, & Quantum.
Here's more info:
Home Hair Perm Wave Advice

Want to change your hairdo? Aside from a mohawk, one of the most exciting ways to alter your look is with a "perm" or permanent wave. It can increase the fullness of soft, fine hair, put a curl or wave into straight hair, or simply make your hair easier to style.

Once, anything other than a professional salon perm put you at risk of looking like Don King. But today, there are excellent, easy-to-control home permanents for every type of hair.

The key to success in home perming is choosing the right product for your hair.

Curls 101

  • Hair is curly or straight because of complex physical and chemical bonds. A permanent changes hair by breaking those bonds. You use rods to reshape the hair, then neutralizer to let the bonds reform.
  • Make sure to treat your hair with the proper conditioners prior to the waving process.
  • Sectioning and blocking involve dividing your head into uniform working areas. This requires a lot of practice and is a big advantage of a professional perm.

Alkaline vs. acid-based perms

The strength of the perming solution used to curl the hair is measured by pH, which can be either alkaline or acidic. Ammonia-based compounds are added for greater alkalinity or removed for greater acidity.

Alkaline perms are good for strong curls, they process quickly, and they work at room temperature. They usually contain ammonium thioglycolate.

    Use an alkaline perm:
  • If your hair is resistant to styling.
  • If you want a strong, tight curl.
  • If past perms relaxed too quickly.

Acid-balanced perms are better for delicate hair, when you want a gentle curl, or just to add body. They require external heat, like a hood-type dryer. They usually contain glyceryl monothiglycolate.

    Use an acid-balanced perm:
  • If your hair is delicate or fragile.
  • If you want a soft, natural look.
  • If you want to create body rather than a strong curl.

Appropriate Uses

Breaks the original chemical hair bonds so the hair can be shaped to the curves of the perming rods. Can be used to create gentle or strong curls and waves. Adds body to fine, thin, or limp hair.

Alkaline compounds
Alkaline compounds are basic substances that cause hair cuticles to swell. These chemicals then penetrate the hair and break the chemical bonds that make hair curly. This allows the hair to be restyled into a new form.

Bases protect the skin from the caustic chemicals used in the relaxing process. They are inert emollients that cover the skin around the hair.

Neutralizers stop the oxidization reaction that breaks the chemical bonds in hair. They also restore the pH of hair and reform the chemical bonds to conform to the new style.

Alkaline Compounds
Ammonium hydroxide Raises the pH to open the hair cuticle and dissolves the chemical bonds that make hair curly.
Ammonium thioglycolate An alkaline reducing agent, it's used to break the chemical bonds in hair. It's also caustic.
Glyceryl monothioglycolate An alkaline reducing agent, it's used to break the chemical bonds in hair. Though not as strong as ammonium thioglycolate, it's still quite potent.
Sodium hydroxide The strongest alkaline agent in kits, it breaks the chemical bonds in hair. It's also a strong base that does not require preshampooing.
Petroleum Used in sodium hydroxide relaxers to protect the user's skin and scalp during the straightening process. It also protects previously processed hair.
Hydrogen peroxide Neutralizes the alkaline substances and reforms the broken hair bonds into a new formation.

Follow Instructions for Success

  • Hair that has already been chemically processed may need a cream conditioner applied to protect the hair before perming.
  • Use protective gloves when applying chemicals.
  • When wrapping hair around rollers, each section must be wrapped smoothly and evenly, without stretching the hair too tightly.
  • After thoroughly rinsing out the permanent solution with warm water, a neutralizer must usually be applied for five to eight minutes to set the curl.
  • Remove rollers and then rinse off neutralizer thoroughly with cool water.

The Makings of a Bad Hair Day

  • Hydrogen peroxide in permanent solutions can cause reddish highlights in dark hair.
  • Frizziness can result from perming too aggressively or too frequently.
  • Those with fine, thin hair may end up with uneven curls.
  • Damaged hair can break easily after perming.
  • Solutions can irritate the scalp.

Powerful Chemicals

  • Do not use if you are allergic to any ingredient in the product.
  • If any chemicals or rinse water gets in your eyes, rinse thoroughly with warm water and direct the stream of water away from the scalp rather than toward it.
  • Use protective gloves when applying chemicals.
  • Avoid contact with eyes, nose, and mouth.
  • A permanent should not be attempted if the scalp is already irritated.
  • Increasing the concentration of chemicals beyond the manufacturer's recommended directions may cause excessive damage to the hair and chemical burns to the skin and scalp.
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timeless View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2008 at 8:58pm
I wanted to bump this for future reference.. Thumbs%20Up I had to use the search engine to find it..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2008 at 7:45am
Great thread.... so it is safe to state that the perm looses its wave as time goes by. 
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