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Celine Dion Supports the BAN on Hijabs

 
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leftywefty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote leftywefty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 10:45pm
people still trying to tell women how to dress eh?
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Blac1Chyna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (6) Thanks(6)   Quote Blac1Chyna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 11:33pm
If you move to an Arab country you will have to submit to their customs, so vice versa. They knew what it was when they moved to the Western world so don't try to change sh*t now that you here. You aint special. Either abide by our culture, go back to your country, or stay in your own community enclaves and do your own thing.
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JoliePoufiasse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (5) Thanks(5)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 12:24am
Originally posted by Blac1Chyna Blac1Chyna wrote:

If you move to an Arab country you will have to submit to their customs, so vice versa. They knew what it was when they moved to the Western world so don't try to change sh*t now that you here. You aint special. Either abide by our culture, go back to your country, or stay in your own community enclaves and do your own thing.
Isn't this pretty much the discourse of white americans towards blacks, though? Whites are the majority so why don't you conform to our way of doing things and push your own cultural references aside? you will legitimately argue that blacks have been there since the beginning and have built America but they don't care. Are you going to ask to ask americans of various ethnic groups to renounce ALL the cultural traits that make them unique and adhere to a white Mayflower protestant type of assimilation without retaining anything of their characteristics? If you don't agree with that within America, than how can you agree with that within Canada, more specifically Quebec? Are you going to ask that black muslims renounce wearing visible signs of their religion and toss their scarves aside? You're reducing a complex situation into something one-dimensional.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 12:27am

The whole existence of North American societies is predicated upon immigration. So to look at it from the point of view of what theological states elsewhere do is ridiculous. Apples and oranges. Truth be told, if we're gonna take this literally, ALL OF YOU should have conformed to native indian cultural norms cuz ALL OF YOU are immigrants, albeit blacks by force. This is not how you make a modern society work within this context of globalization.



Edited by JoliePoufiasse - Nov 02 2013 at 12:29am
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Blac1Chyna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Blac1Chyna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 12:37am
They cannot be compared to black americans. They are recent immigrants who chose to come here. Black americans have been in this US longer than most other ethnicities have. They new to this, we true to this. And there are only like 3 Native americans left so they have no say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 12:45am
Originally posted by Blac1Chyna Blac1Chyna wrote:

They cannot be compared to black americans. They are recent immigrants who chose to come here. Black americans have been in this US longer than most other ethnicities have. They new to this, we true to this. And there are only like 3 Native americans left so they have no say.
I did mention that blacks were here since the beginning. And yet the marginalization remains. Why is that, do you think? And what about the Italians, the Irish, the Asians, the latinos and god knows every other ethnic groups that made it to the U.S? Are you asking them to renounce all the cultural traits that make them unique? Did the Irish and italians have to renounce the catholic church and ways to finally be included as Americans? It's not like catholics were well viewed back then, but the society has involved to accommodate the influx of different nationalities. That is what a modern state does. And going back to blacks, blacks may have been there from the beginning and may have built this country, but why is it that they have not been given the opportunity to evolve like the Italians, the irish, the Asians, hell even the arabs? Don't you think that it's a flaw of a system that claims to be multicultural? Yall may not be recent immigrants but you're kind of treated as such, and mediocre ones at that. You're not looking at the big picture. The U.S being "officially multicultural" and unofficially not should tell you something. Again, how are you gonna compare the situation of developed western countries to that of a few RELIGIOUS STATES that are not experiencing the kind of immigration that North America has experience, and Europe of late? Your argument doesn't make sense.

Edited by JoliePoufiasse - Nov 02 2013 at 12:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 12:49am
yes blacks have a special history in the U.S, but the point is that the U.S. in itself is predicated upon immigration. Them Mayflowers, they came from somewhere else! Matter of fact, The US was colonized by RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS FROM EUROPE fleeing persecution. Did they conform to the ways of the people they found there, which is the Indians? A resounding no.
What do you mean, native American have no say? They have treaties that have been disrespected by whites and IT'S THEIR LAND! They should have the most say of all. So the whole idea that you need to conform to the land you arrive into is contradicted by U.S. history itself. They sure as hell didn't do that.

Edited by JoliePoufiasse - Nov 02 2013 at 12:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote TokyoRose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 1:13am
This is a good reason to advocate for secularism as far as government is concerned. There needs to be some compromise here, but what happens if it goes beyond a simple discussion of a hijab? What if a mana wants to argue for the right to subjugate his wife? Should we, as a progressive society, allow that to happen? If a person, based on religious or cultural grounds, believes that others should go to a beach and be covered because it offends them, should that happen? Should anyone, whether it be a Muslim or someone who is just repeatedly sick and wears a surgeon's mask, decides they want to cover their face for ID, should that be okay?

I understand that there are certain rights that should be afforded individuals, but they can't come at te expense of the whole society.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoliePoufiasse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 1:21am
Originally posted by TokyoRose TokyoRose wrote:

This is a good reason to advocate for secularism as far as government is concerned. There needs to be some compromise here, but what happens if it goes beyond a simple discussion of a hijab? What if a mana wants to argue for the right to subjugate his wife? Should we, as a progressive society, allow that to happen? If a person, based on religious or cultural grounds, believes that others should go to a beach and be covered because it offends them, should that happen? Should anyone, whether it be a Muslim or someone who is just repeatedly sick and wears a surgeon's mask, decides they want to cover their face for ID, should that be okay?

I understand that there are certain rights that should be afforded individuals, but they can't come at te expense of the whole society.
I understand all of the points that you outline and I agree with them. The thread was about the Charter, though, which states that a muslim woman cannot wear a simple scarf on her head even if she's competent at her job, as if the mere act of wearing said scarf is contagious and will draw in White French agnostics to convert to Islam. They act like the damn scarf is a disease that they will be infected with just by setting their gaze upon it. It's a question of it being offensive to THEIR EYES. What does that have to do with these women doing their job? You say you want to reaffirm the equality of men and women and yet you want to send educated, competent women back to the kitchen over a freakin' scarf??? Not a full covering, afghan style. A SCARF.
 
As far as demands pertaining to what Quebec calls "reasonable accommodations" that turn out to be unreasonable, I completely understand. There was a school where some muslim parents insisted that their girls be allowed to use the pool alone, without any boys around. They actually caved for a while but to me that was an example of an UNREASONABLE accommodation.
 
This is completely different. Of course, subjugation of any kind should not be tolerated. That's crystal clear. We're talking about expressing your cultural and spiritual affiliations through your manner of dress.


Edited by JoliePoufiasse - Nov 02 2013 at 1:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afrokock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 2:17am
I love Muslims.. Most opinions about them are based of unjustified fear racism and plain old bullying.

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